Super Beetle Sunroof Adventure (maybe part 1).

[Tim Donahoe]

I own a 1974 Super Beetle Sunbug with a sunroof that wouldn't open--despite the fact that the previous owner installed new cables a few years before I bought the bug in October of 2012.

Below is shown the first thing you want to do if you're thinking of removing the sunroof top for seal replacement or another reason. Tape the edges of the car and sunroof lid with masking tape. If you skip this part, you're likely to scratch the paint.

To begin, go inside the car and open the sunroof a few inches. Get a wooden wedge tool and pry the inner headliner from the sunroof. This is done at the front, and there are five clips. Just wedge between the liner and the roof and force the liner down. Now push it to the rear in its groove to get it out of the way. If you wanted to remove it, you'd have to remove at least one side (guide) rail first.

Now crank the sunroof to a fully closed position.

This is one of two front guides. Remove the two philips screws and simply pull the guide toward the center of the car. Do the other one too.

Now go to the rear guide (s).

The rear guides have a leaf spring that must be carefully pulled down at the rear where it engages the barrel roller/pin. Pull it down just enough to get it off the barrel and pull the end toward you. It will actually fall off in your hands once you make a 90 degree angle. Note how it has a nib that fits into a hole in the sunroof. Mark the leaf spring left or right with a marker. Now unscrew the two screws at the rear bracket and pull the top piece away from the two-piece rear bracket, as shown below.

Do the same to the other rear bracket. Now you are ready to lift off the sunroof. Open your car doors, and from outside the car reach in and push the front of the sunroof upward a little. Take it easy. Move it higher, then grab the front of the roof and pull until the rear of the roof starts to disengage from the rear brackets. The rear bracket arms will tangle a bit, so be careful. Once disengaged, put the roof in a safe place and look at the top of the car.

The above shows the wind deflector. It's in its upright position now, and you can see a spring arm at each side that raises and lowers the deflector as the roof moves to and fro.

Remove the single screw at each deflector spring arm and pry the bracket up and off. Do this on both sides, then flip up the deflector and remove the screws at its brackets. Remove the wind deflector and set aside. Then remove the other two screws at the runner plate and remove them. the side runners should now look like this:

Now remove all the front guide rail screws and pry off the above rail.

You have now exposed the front cable guide. In the center where you can see the crank, there is a tensioner piece. Pluck it off as shown below.

Go back in the car and remove the crank handle screw and its escutcheon. Below shows what you you have now. Loosen the two crank screws a full six turns each, then grab the crank gear and pull down. This disengages the cables from the crank gear--for later adjustments, etc. Below shows the cables out of their grooves. You can now see how the cables go into their runners--front and sides. Remember, the rear slot in the front runner is for the left cable.

Oil your cables a bit and their channels.

To adjust cables, put them back into their oiled grooves and attach the side chanel brackets first, then the top front guide. this keeps the cables from jumping out of their grooves as you attach the front channel cover guide:

Move, by hand, the rear cable guides to a point that was close to their position before you messed with them. The manual says right next to the "ramp". But my rear brackets would not enter their roof counterparts unless the cable guides were shoved forward about an inch from the ramps.

Make sure the rear guide's raising lever arm is fully upright.

Put all the upper pieces back on and then the roof, back edge first, then lower the front. You will notice that the rear bracket will require some adjustment to get it into the rear roof counterpart, so you may have to go outside and inside the car to make adjustments to fit these rear brackets.

Press the roof down, and go back inside the car to fit the rear brackets to the rear guides. Line them up by using a flat screwdriver to move the rear guides into perfect position, as shown below.

Install the rear bracket screws and then the front brackets and their screws.

You may have to adjust the height of, both front and rear brackets. To do the fronts, loosen the holding screws on the bracket and turn the center adjuster "in" to lower the roof and "out" to raise it. The adjuster is between the two bracket screws shown below:

The rears are a bit trickier. There is a screw at the rear brackets raising arms. Loosen this screw and physically raise or lower the roof by hand. Tighten the screw when done. Below, you can see the screw right after the rear bracket bends down.

Now that your cable length and height is adjusted, re-install the rear bracket's leaf springs and go back to your crank gear and push it back up to engage the cables. Push until you hear/feel a definite engagement. Tighten the crank's screws, then attach the escutcheon and handle. Take care not to lose the handle screw

For more information, download the Rabbit sunroof manual in The Samba Archives. For my part, I will probably add to this thread after I eat some lunch and maybe take a nap ... or something.

Edit: It was necessary for me to re-do some items; for instance, I took it all apart and took out the side rails. I cleaned them meticulously (the grooves) and checked the rearmost plastic holder-inners.

Also, I ended up installing a new German seal, and was not satisfied with the fit. The roof simply would not close all the way without undue pressure, nor would it adjust to the proper height. I ended up cutting a slit in the middle front of the seal (under to keep the slit hidden), then a slit at either side of the seal (under again) at an area a few inches further back after rounding the front corners. At this point, I used needle-nose pliers to grab the white inner seal rubber, and cut it with wire clippers. I also cut the inner seal at the two side slits. From this point, I grabbed the two cut ends--from the middle--and carefully withdrew the rubber innards.

This allowed me proper spacing to close the roof easily and completely--without having to over-crank the crank, and possibly ruin my good cables. I left the rest of the white inner (a kind of rubber) seal inside the felt.

The difference in fit was amazing, as I believe these new German seals are simply too fat without removing some inner material.

Perhaps a little more water may get through my dust seal--but it's a dust seal, not a water seal, anyway. Besides, it nice to have a sunroof that closes properly and sits in the opening at a level position.

Tim

[djkeev]

When you removed the interior panel from the metal top...... What did you do with it?

Pull it out and set it aside or push it back towards the rear out of the way but retrievable?

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

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Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[Tim Donahoe]

Hm? I just pushed it back into its recess. You can't remove it unless you remove at least one side runner (guide rail) completely. I'll re-read and edit that.

Tim

[djkeev]

[Tim Donahoe]

For any that look to this thread for guidance, I want to add that I completely re-did this job so as to remove and clean and re-oil the side runners. They come out easy.

I also went ahead and replaced the seal with a German one--and that created another problem entirely.

The seal is too fat. So, the proper closing of the roof is really impossible. To fix this, I cut small slits in the seal (under it, so the slits couldn't be seen); a slit on either side--just after the front curve--and a single slit in the center front. After that, I cut the white inner rubber piece in there and withdrew it from each side (withdrawing from the center slit). This operation removed enough of the seal's thickness in the front, for the roof to close completely.

Tim

[Lester_Boy]

Tim, thanks for all the great pics and step by step work. I have been working on a '74 as well and because of your post realized why my sunroof doesn't work. I am missing the tensioner that goes over the gear and holds the cables tight to the gear. Nowhere to be found, I never had it. Sunroof was in pieces when I got the car. Do you have any idea where I can get one?
Thanks

[Tim Donahoe]

Lester, you have two choices. The first, make up your own tensioner, using the photos in this thread as a guide. But that's a tricky situation if you can't bend some suitably-thick sheet metal stock properly.

The second choice is to copy a couple of my pictures, then place a WTB ad in the 1968 and Up Samba Classifieds. Using this method, I have always gotten one or more replies when I needed hard-to-get parts. Sometimes it's from someone who sells parts part time, sometimes it's just a fellow VW enthusiast that sees the ad, has the part, doesn't need it for whatever reason, and replies to my wtb ad.

In fact, I needed two triangular-shaped plastic guide pieces--the ones that fit under the sun roof lid; and I put in a wtb ad and a nice member sold them to me for a good price. Later, I found that Wolfsburg West still supplies these small, but important guide pieces; but I was glad to get them from another member.

Good luck,

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

Lester, you have two choices. The first, make up your own tensioner, using the photos in this thread as a guide. But that's a tricky situation if you can't bend some suitably-thick sheet metal stock properly.

The second choice is to copy a couple of my pictures, then place a WTB ad in the 1968 and Up Samba Classifieds. Using this method, I have always gotten one or more replies when I needed hard-to-get parts. Sometimes it's from someone who sells parts part time, sometimes it's just a fellow VW enthusiast that sees the ad, has the part, doesn't need it for whatever reason, and replies to my wtb ad.

In fact, I needed two triangular-shaped plastic guide pieces--the ones that fit under the sun roof lid; and I put in a wtb ad and a nice member sold them to me for a good price. Later, I found that Wolfsburg West still supplies these small, but important guide pieces; but I was glad to get them from another member.

Good luck,

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Hatracks]

I am glad someone bumped this thread as I need to install my sunroof in the next week or two!
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73 Super Build

[andk5591]

Tim...You rock... Just getting ready to pull the sunroof on a 74 Super.
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D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Tim Donahoe]

Sorry, guys. I’m reposting this one for a friend, so he won’t have to search.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[TonyPgh]

[Tim Donahoe]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/vwsunroof_h2o.php

The above link shows you all you need to know, except some problems I listed previously.

Use only the Rabbit teachings in this Manual.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

Tony, I was able to post the link here, too.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Yehan73]

Hi Tim,
Is that sunroof wind deflector standard part or a rabbit part. My 72 does not have this, and I've been looking for one.

[TonyPgh]

[Tim Donahoe]

The wind deflector is a standard part. I don’t think pre 1973 has the same sunroof, however.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[andk5591]

The leaf springs and associated rollers have me confused. Putting back together a 74 sunroof that had been "restored" by another shop and stuff was missing. I do not have the springs or rollers and not sure how/where the rollers attach. I have had to fab some parts already for this (was missing the second plates for the attachment points, for example)

Any insight on the spring/rollers?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Tim Donahoe]

The back end of each cable has a post with the barrel rollers attached on the end of it. The leaf spring that engages the roller on either side is removed by pulling down on the back end of it, the pulling toward the center of the car. The leaf spring then comes out in your hand.

A look at the manual link will show this arrangement completely.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

P.s. without those rollers and leaf springs, I don’t see how you can get the system to work. And the only place I’ve ever seen the leaf springs for sale is in the Samba Classifieds.

The rollers can be had when you buy new cables. Several VW vendors sell these.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien