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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| The ground wire is for the points so they can get a good ground thru the distributor body and into the engine case. |
I'll solder this back up.
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You want to ohm meter out the wires from end to end, and not with them connected to the distributor cap or the spark plugs.  What you're looking for is continuity between the 2 ends, as there's a resistor in the bakelite end that attaches to the spark plug that does like to burn out. |
So what you're saying is the end that attaches to the plug there's a center resistor (bakalite), which almost looks like a sandollar can burn out. I had a wire or two that looked pretty scorched in this spot. However, I was still able to get correct readings by slightly moving my probe to the left or right of this spot to touch the copper. Doing it this way I had about 1,000 ohms on wires 1-4 and 7,370 ohms on the coil wire. Do I need to retest through that center resistor?
 i leave the coil wire to the distributor plugged in while testing the trigger contacts right? It was a few months since I last tested them, and I completely forgot. Spent a good hour on the samba trying to find the procedure.
thanks!
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17974
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| CLEMENTINE71 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Have you tried priming the pump multiple times before starting? |
This morning I cycled the key 4X before starting, she stalled once and then the second time sputtered a bit then finally idled. |
My '69 FI/AT starts like this too when it's cold. Jim Adney's fuel primer button near the column keeps from having to cycle the key so much, but it doesn't really cure the cold start problem. It starts/runs fine warm in my estimation for 1969 FI. You will never get it to start instantly/consistently cold like 2015 FI . 
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22435
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| CLEMENTINE71 wrote: |
So what you're saying is the end that attaches to the plug there's a center resistor (bakalite), which almost looks like a sandollar can burn out. I had a wire or two that looked pretty scorched in this spot. However, I was still able to get correct readings by slightly moving my probe to the left or right of this spot to touch the copper. |
If you can see a burned spot in the bakelite piece, then it's probably burned out the resistor inside it. Having to move the probe so you get a reading usually means the same thing. You should only have to insert the probe to touch the spark plug end, and see IF you get a reading.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
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| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| If you can see a burned spot in the bakelite piece, then it's probably burned out the resistor inside it. Having to move the probe so you get a reading usually means the same thing. You should only have to insert the probe to touch the spark plug end, and see IF you get a reading. |
Thanks for the heads up - I'll have to put in an order for a new set.
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Last edited by CLEMENTINE71 on Mon May 18, 2015 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I've soldered the breaker plate ground, and fixed the lead going to terminal#15 at the coil. It was pretty frayed. I'm also running a thinner oil. No cold start improvements, but running better hot.
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Last edited by CLEMENTINE71 on Mon May 18, 2015 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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She's 99% percent there.
-cleaned mps. It was flooded with oil, flushed with contact cleaner
-clamped down intake runner sleeves
-found correct bolt for condenser to dist.
After this, she's been starting up on the first crank, with no priming. Not 100% consistant but almost.
I did receive and install new spark plug wires most recently, but the big improvement was after the above mentioned
I am waiting on a new condenser as I accidentally cut through some of the wiring on install. Rookie  Beyond this, I plan on removing my dist to clean everything. I think as bob mentioned, I am dealing with both an fi and ignition layered problem.
Can someone recommend a way to keep the breakerplate ground put? My solder keeps popping off. Jb weld?
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21521
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| CLEMENTINE71 wrote: |
She's 99% percent there.
-cleaned mps. It was flooded with oil, flushed with contact cleaner
-clamped down intake runner sleeves
-found correct bolt for condenser to dist.
After this, she's been starting up on the first crank, with no priming. Not 100% consistant but almost.
I did receive and install new spark plug wires most recently, but the big improvement was after the above mentioned
I am waiting on a new condenser as I accidentally cut through some of the wiring on install. Rookie Beyond this, I plan on removing my dist to clean everything. I think as bob mentioned, I am dealing with both an fi and ignition layered problem.
Can someone recommend a way to keep the breakerplate ground put? My solder keeps popping off. Jb weld? |
There is the redneck way...which saved my ass on the side of the road...and no...JB weld is not conductive.
The redneck way is crimp on a very small ring connector and drill a small screw hole in the plate and thread it. Us a small set screw to hold the copper braid to the plate. You need to file.grind the screw on the bottom side and polish smooth.
Solder will not work on the braid. You either need to braze it...which generally warps the plate....or spot weld it quick and small. Ray |
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: |
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There is the redneck way...which saved my ass on the side of the road...and no...JB weld is not conductive.
The redneck way is crimp on a very small ring connector and drill a small screw hole in the plate and thread it. Us a small set screw to hold the copper braid to the plate. You need to file.grind the screw on the bottom side and polish smooth.
Solder will not work on the braid. You either need to braze it...which generally warps the plate....or spot weld it quick and small. Ray |
Thanks Ray. A small spot weld sounds like my best bet, and a good excuse to use my Lincoln.
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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To follow up - I've since cleaned the distributor/trigger contacts and welded the breaker plate ground down. Reinstalled - checked against TDC, valve positioning, & distributor housing mark.
I believe I'm getting signs of where the rest of the problem is, or atleast what type of problem is at the root. The car's hot start problem that I mentioned at the beginning of this post has developed more. Leading me to believe I'm dealing with a mixture problem and temperature just being a byproduct.
when hot, running after 15 minutes or more: cranks for 1-2 seconds and then sloppily and reluctantly turns over while applying a little bit of gas. Might take 2X. Cold start still remains improved however. Slight hesitation at low rpms when warming up - works itself out when hot.
Just to be safe, I know I had a sloppy key lock cylinder, so that will be replaced this weekend. I do have a new ignition switch already in place.
By the sounds of it, and the fact this problem progressed after cleaning my dist. and trigger contacts, I think it's likely this is where the problem is.
Yesterday I tested my trigger contacts for the second time and was getting readings primarily in the 500- 700 & 500 - 900 ohm range, never seeing anything close to 0. I triple tested, and got the same results each time, if this is true, then this would mean I'm not getting proper contact - causing a weak circuit and lean mixture? But to be honest, I'm not confident in these readings and would like to perform a second test.
Can rotating the engine by hand be another way to test the contacts? Seems like it would achieve the same results. And by being slower, give easier to read results?
sorry for the long post - helps to write this down 
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Well the new key cylinder and a good cleaning of the ignition switch and alot of graphite fixed the overall starting inconsistencies.
She kicks over with alot of power now (cold & hot) - just what I was looking for.  That "hot" start issue was all ignition switch.
Still stally when cold - new trigger contacts should hopefully clear this up. I still plan on trying the hand crank test to confirm.
I may have exaggerated with the whole 99% thing 
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Not only did my trigger contacts test good. they tested .5 ohms on either side. Which from what I've read, is rare. These will not get replaced, maybe framed and put on our wall.
Spoke too soon about the hot start issue. came back yesterday after a longer drive and during midday heat.
I've continued to test in the mornings and warm - shes kicking over fine. I'd like to say its fixed, but I wan't to sort out this hot start issue before I say anything else.
Where is a good place to start with this? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
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CLEMENTINE71
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2014
Posts: 56
Location: Auburn CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: Cold Start Gremlin (T3 FI) SOLVED* |
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Problem fixed.
i made my way to the starter. it was hanging on by a single bolt! wtf! The top bolt was still in there, but wedged in there with a putty shim (incorrect bolt size) and no nut out the engine bay. The last time I had her in a shop was for a transmission rebuild. The shop owner is a well respected vw trained mechanic, i just dont think he hires the best help  wont name the shop. Scares me to think what other stuff I've corrected that they've done.
Anyway, replaced the starter and correctly bolted it down. Been driving her for the last week and she's running tiptop, probably the best in years! I'm kicking myself for not checking the flywheel while i was in there, but it seems to be catching normally.
fixes
fuel pump (thee og unit was running off the return line)
swapped injector (3&4)
loose starter (one bolt only)
ignition switch issues
probable contributing factors
oil flooded mps
cold start valve
transmission ground strap
distributor grounding issues
spark plug wires
vacuum leaks (intake runner sleeves)
it was a multi layered problem, not an easyfix. but on the upside, i learned alot. It seems like a knit-pick case, but I think I avoided bigger issues down the road.
Thanks to everyone who helped!
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