Author |
Message |
FeveredMind Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016 Posts: 147 Location: Riverside, CA
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Krustybus wrote: |
Sorry, can’t answer that question. I’ve only used early (no spacer or adaptor) and late (just adapter) with aftermarket wheels.
Be aware that with the larger diameter drum and lowered height, it can be challenging to get the tires on and off.
Also, I was able to get 5 lug drums at ISP, but that was last October. |
So I was finally able to crack the axle nuts off and see what I got. These are the results. What do I have here?
_________________ New to split window busses but learning new things everyday. This forum is a wealth of knowledge. Thank you everyone for sharing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Krustybus Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 442 Location: SE Michigan
|
Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Type 3 missing some parts
Type 3 drum that’s been drilled and had studs pressed in.
_________________ Tim |
|
Back to top |
|
|
galencurrington Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2004 Posts: 426 Location: bowling green, ky
|
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:54 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
i'm working on a 56 single cab for a guy and he wanted me to get in running and do the brakes. he brought it to my house and i put it up on stands and took a wheel off and to my amazement i can't believe someone would lower a bus this way and expect to have someone drive it and feel safe doing it. It also was running the original master cylinder from 1956 that just kills me but oh they replace the speedo cable. That's just unreal to me. also in the back they just flipped the RGB to drop the rear. i have heard of that but it's not a good idea because of oilling and stuff. i honestly don't know who tried to build this single cab before he bought it but dang man so unsafe. now i have to explain it to him now he's going to have to spend a bunch to make it safe and reliable to drive more than what he planned on.
_________________ "asking and getting are two different things" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
^^^ that kind of build quality is what gives lowered vehicles a bad reputation.
Sorry to see the guy got hosed, but with an old car, as always, Buyer beware! _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69834 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
galencurrington Samba Member
Joined: March 16, 2004 Posts: 426 Location: bowling green, ky
|
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
I like how they used hose clamps for some of the sway bar mounts. They also welded the bumper brackets to the body.
I've been around these cars a long time and have seen alot of tricks that some people will do. Throw alot of mud on something and paint it red to using foam spray and painting it black to using a piece of slinky to tighten up a main bearing. I see stuff like this all the time and people they bought their cars off of say they took it to a vw shop or he knew how to work one them. The last car i worked on all the exhaust was just finger tight and valve clearance was way to tight it ran awful. I think I care to much and i'm very anal and try to do things correctly and safely. It just kills me. _________________ "asking and getting are two different things" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NAES Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2003 Posts: 2121 Location: AREA-52 Southern Killafornia
|
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
The above build brings back some memories!
Back in the mid 90's my first bus was slammed by pulling leaves. I ran 2 upper and 2 lower, temporary tires and a home made straight axle using a regular long axle trans and s-shaped spring plates. I ran on pretty much bottomed out shocks and drove it all over to school, shows and wherever else! Looking back I can't believe I didn't break major parts on the regular.
Thankfully I've come a long way since then but honestly they were some of the most fun VW times I can remember. _________________ Barndoor Mafia
Box On Wheels
SBS #00 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Calgary, AB
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
I’m trying to make sense of some straight axles I have. After reading through hours of threads, I can’t find the answer.
I suspect the tubes may have been lengthened, although I can’t find any evidence of that looking inside them. I would think there would be an obvious seam visible?
The axles themselves measure 28” long, and have long spines. So they are long / long. But they were installed in a set of axle tubes with short end castings and a bearing cap meant for short end castings (311 501 311). Without the ‘A’ suffix which would be for long end castings I believe.
The tubes measure 21-7/8” which is the length of the ‘68 long end casting tubes.
Here’s what I have:
This measurement is 21-7/8”:
These are my axles which to me look long / long and measure 28”:
Measurement of the tube from the trans to where the spring plate bolts to the flange is 18-1/4”:
Ultimately, I guess my question is, have these been lengthened? Will they work without needing offset spring plates? I’ve found lots of references to adding 1-1/8” to standard tubes, but I’m having trouble finding the correct measurements to tell me if this is what’s been done here.
Any help is appreciated. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Here's a shot I took many years ago showing the three axle lengths.
I can't recall the exact measurement for a modified axle tube right now (to use without offset spring plates), but I have a gut feeling that is exactly what you have. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Calgary, AB
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
cdennisg wrote: |
Here's a shot I took many years ago showing the three axle lengths.
I can't recall the exact measurement for a modified axle tube right now (to use without offset spring plates), but I have a gut feeling that is exactly what you have. |
Thanks for that! I’ve seen your picture lots throughout the forums, and it was definitely helpful.
I guess to be more clear, this setup was installed in a project Bus I bought. So it was put together and ‘sort of’ worked.
It had tons of positive camber, and the tires were so tight against the spring plates (non-offset), it couldn’t roll. Even with spacers and adapters at the drums. Although the spring plates also looked like they were bent / angled in too much as well. Which is why, at the time, I suspected someone had simply installed an early short axle setup.
I pulled apart because in my confusion, I believed the long axels and tubes of a ‘68 would move everything outwards more, including the end castings.
I think after all my work to find a pair of ‘68 axles and tubes, swap them all out, and buy offset spring plates, it might not have been necessary. Likely just smaller tires would have fixed it.
I’m hoping someone has measurements of a lengthened set and can point me in the right direction! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
CanStan wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
Here's a shot I took many years ago showing the three axle lengths.
I can't recall the exact measurement for a modified axle tube right now (to use without offset spring plates), but I have a gut feeling that is exactly what you have. |
Thanks for that! I’ve seen your picture lots throughout the forums, and it was definitely helpful.
I guess to be more clear, this setup was installed in a project Bus I bought. So it was put together and ‘sort of’ worked.
It had tons of positive camber, and the tires were so tight against the spring plates (non-offset), it couldn’t roll. Even with spacers and adapters at the drums. Although the spring plates also looked like they were bent / angled in too much as well. Which is why, at the time, I suspected someone had simply installed an early short axle setup.
I pulled apart because in my confusion, I believed the long axels and tubes of a ‘68 would move everything outwards more, including the end castings.
I think after all my work to find a pair of ‘68 axles and tubes, swap them all out, and buy offset spring plates, it might not have been necessary. Likely just smaller tires would have fixed it.
I’m hoping someone has measurements of a lengthened set and can point me in the right direction! |
I walked out to my shop after my post and was thinking I had written down those measurements somewhere, sometime long ago. Found it on my tool box lid. 21 7/8" finished length for modded split bus axle tubes.
So you have what you need, but you are likely right in guessing that the tires were too wide, or the rims had funky offset, or both. Sounds like the spring plate index was way out of spec, too, to have that much camber.
Offset plates won't give you more tire clearance, they just make it so you don't have to modify axle tubes and your stock spring plates to make it all work. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Calgary, AB
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Thanks so much for taking the time to check that measurement. Would I be right I thinking having that total length of 21-7/8” means the flange to attach the spring plate to for sure sits in the right spot with the short end casting? I believe so, because adding 1-1/8” to the tube makes up for the difference in widths of the short and long end castings.
I still find it strange that looking down the tubes, I can’t see any evidence of a seam where the extra length of tube was welded in. I even sanded down the outside of the whole tube to check for a weld. Nothing found. I think most people weld to the area inside the casting, so I can’t see the outside there obviously. But you’d think inside, I’d see something?
I just want to be 100% positive these will be proper for someone else to use on their Bus. Time to recover some of that extra $1000 I spend unnecessarily.
I definitely thought I was doing the right thing after reading through the lowering threads before I started. But that’s the joy of taking on someone else’s partially done project and not knowing what’s been done. Or more importantly, what’s been done properly, and what’s been done incorrectly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Someone may have pressed them onto long axle tubes after removing the long end castings, and didn't weld on an extra section of tube. Pretty sure it can be done that way. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CanStan Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Calgary, AB
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
cdennisg wrote: |
Someone may have pressed them onto long axle tubes after removing the long end castings, and didn't weld on an extra section of tube. Pretty sure it can be done that way. |
I truly appreciate the help. I’ve taken a lot from your posts on this topic. I owe you a beer / coffee next time I’m through Sandpoint. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
CanStan wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
Someone may have pressed them onto long axle tubes after removing the long end castings, and didn't weld on an extra section of tube. Pretty sure it can be done that way. |
I truly appreciate the help. I’ve taken a lot from your posts on this topic. I owe you a beer / coffee next time I’m through Sandpoint. |
I would enjoy either, but you certainly are not obligated. If you come through in the warmer months, we could sit in the back yard and tip a cold one. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crimble Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2023 Posts: 1 Location: West Sussex
|
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:08 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Hello all.. I am not sure if I am in the right forum here, but it seems relevant.. and i am talking about raising, not lowering!! So my question is for you skilled and knowledgeable people. I have had my 1966 Splitty for 15 years, and some time ago (maybe 10 years) I decided that it was a good idea to put in a Creative Engineering steering rack and front disc brakes. From memory this meant that I had to get some drop spindles added. Anyway, for the last 10 years I have had an issue that whenever there are two or three of us in the front seat or we are carrying some heavier luggage, if I go over a bump in the road or the suspension compresses too much, the front tyres rub the bottom of the wheel arches. My original solution was to get some lower profile front tyres, hoping that it would fix the problem (which it partially did - until I got fatter or carried a heavier load in the front!) - apart from throwing the speedo miles out, it prevented the issue from happening as much, but did not stop the problem. It hasn't bothered me until now.. and now it bothers me!! I need some new front tyres now, and I want to go back to the original tyre profile to match the rears - my question is..how can I adjust the suspension or front beam so that the body is lifted high enough off the wheels to stop the tyres rubbing the inside bottom wheel arches? Or is it more of a case of cutting out the floor pan (which I am very loathed to do) and put a curved arch in.. and and all suggestions would be very gratefully received.
Cheers in advance |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mauidude Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2022 Posts: 32 Location: Haiku Hawaii
|
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:00 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Crimble , I have a similar issue but different parts, do you have an adjustable front beam? If you do then you should be able to raise it up a few inches, typically drop spindles only drop 2-2.5 inches. It’s also possible the front torsion leaves are old and saggy. Best of luck |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20287 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:36 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
Standard split bus drop spindles will lower the front 3 1/2". Not sure if that Creative Engineering front end is adjustable, but I bet it is, a least a little bit.
Front wheel tubs are made for just the issue you are asking about. Clearance for the front tires during suspension movement. If you want to run a larger tire, you either need to raise the front suspension, or install tubs. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
karl h Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2005 Posts: 579 Location: austria
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dsaaylesworth Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2021 Posts: 2 Location: USA
|
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:16 am Post subject: Re: How to lower a Bus and all lowering questions |
|
|
I have the opportunity to purchase a set of long tube long axle short spline axles with wide five drums. The seller says they are from a 67’ bug. I was hoping that someone could tell me if these will work on 64’ S.C. to swap out my GRB axles? I would also like to know if I should use offset adjustable spring plates or will straight notched adjustable spring plates work? I appreciate any information on these questions!
Thank you! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|