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Mr. Okrasa 
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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 Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:03 pm Post subject: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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Customer wanted a 36hp Judson Supercharged engine for his '56 beetle but wanted to have a dog house cooler. Many hours to get to this point.
The EMPI fan housing needed some rework in order to get the full potential of the upgraded cooling system. This is in the final "mock-up" stage
with the exhaust system installed. Sheet metal already came back from powder coat. Waiting for intake manifold and heater boxes to come
back from ceramic coat before I finish this one. Cheers Loco's 
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint 
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 720
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| It's looking good ....keep up the good work that you do ... |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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Been doing that for years. Drill out the cooler mounts to accept the bigger studs, use the adapter seals and it’s on. Engine runs heck of a lot cooler and from the front you can’t tell unless you know what to look for. Get a lot more heat in the cabin too with that bigger fan.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Been doing that for years. Drill out the cooler mounts to accept the bigger studs, use the adapter seals and it’s on. Engine runs heck of a lot cooler and from the front you can’t tell unless you know what to look for. Get a lot more heat in the cabin too with that bigger fan. |
I seen this set-up before years ago when EMPI, Scat, etc. started selling these. No customer has ever wanted it installed on their engine so there
was no need for me to build an engine using this cooling method.
It was a pretty straight forward installation with some minor welding to get everything to "fit properly". Besides welding a couple of nut plates for
the coil mount and tab for wiring, I also had to make a plate to reach the Hoover bit to cover a "low air pressure" area where air would escape and
not go through the oil cooler. I made a "flush nut" to attach the backing plate where the back of the supercharger was rubbing and also installed
a "venturi ring". Needed to trim the edge of the backing plate also to clear the blower.
ADDED NOTE: Rather than opening up the 6mm holes in the magnesium block and "weakening" the mounting boss, I installed (2) 8mm to 6mm
Time Serts in the oil cooler. Then I installed long 6mm SET SCREWS to bolt the oil cooler to the block. Since the set screws are made from material
that is harder than regular studs, there is no chance that they would break and now you still maintain the rigidity of the block. You can see them in
the 1st & 2nd photos.
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com
Last edited by Mr. Okrasa on Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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.
Moving right along with Robo's Supercharged '56 engine build. I received the sheet metal back from powder coating and started reinstalling the pcs.
Per customer requests, I'm installing an optional Okrasa style oil cooler and a remote Fram oil filter. I'm pre-fitting the copper coiled cooler
and taking measurements and how I'm going to route the oil lines.....
BTW: Does anybody have a "known good" Judson coil with nice decals they may want to sell?
The owner of this engine asked me to put the word out there.....Thanks.
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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mkbug
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
.
BTW: Does anybody have a "known good" Judson coil with nice decals they may want to sell?
The owner of this engine asked me to put the word out there.....Thanks.
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Check with BBT Bob. He had a few at one time.
_________________
I'm Martin
My Build: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=667183 |
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TXHCBeetle
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2021
Posts: 170
Location: Boerne, TX
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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I really like this. I prefer the look of 36HP shrouds, but I heard mixed opinions about the aftermarket dog house version. Does the EMPI Fan shroud "bolt-up" within reason, to original German cooling sheet metal? Or do you need to run mostly EMPI sheet metal?
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In Progress:
1958 Beetle Sedan - L243 Diamond Gray
1967 Beetle Sedan - L456 Ruby Red |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| TXHCBeetle wrote: |
| I really like this. I prefer the look of 36HP shrouds, but I heard mixed opinions about the aftermarket dog house version. Does the EMPI Fan shroud "bolt-up" within reason, to original German cooling sheet metal? Or do you need to run mostly EMPI sheet metal? |
I’ve done it three times. There were minimal fitment issues with the 36hp tins. I’m not sure I’d use the EMPI one though. I know of one guy who has a colossal failure with his, the internal fins collapsed on the 3/4 side. The SCAT ones are supposed to be better.
Interesting approach on using step down studs. I always hog out the holes enough for the stock studs to fit. So far no problem.
I also can’t say for sure it makes a difference, I’m just doing it based on the idea that VW did it to improve cooling over the old design. But then I’ve read some Berg article somewhere that the after market shrouds don’t work as well as stock. So like with most things once you venture out of the stock world you have to make your own call and live with it.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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s.e.charles
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| who's BBT? |
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dinsdale
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2005
Posts: 86
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| s.e.charles wrote: |
| who's BBT? |
https://www.bbt4vw.com/ |
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s.e.charles
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| thank you. |
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| mkbug wrote: |
| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
.
BTW: Does anybody have a "known good" Judson coil with nice decals they may want to sell?
The owner of this engine asked me to put the word out there.....Thanks.
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Check with BBT Bob. He had a few at one time. |
I checked BBT's website and showed nothing related to Judson.........
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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s.e.charles
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 240
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7229
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
.
Moving right along with Robo's Supercharged '56 engine build. I received the sheet metal back from powder coating and started reinstalling the pcs.
Per customer requests, I'm installing an optional Okrasa style oil cooler and a remote Fram oil filter. I'm pre-fitting the copper coiled cooler
and taking measurements and how I'm going to route the oil lines.....
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While those spiral coolers are period correct for these engines, it is one of those items NOT to use, and especially not in warm climates, as it both limits the air flow to the engine cooling, but also heats it up some, reducing cooling capacity further.
Don´t do that.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5971
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
| mkbug wrote: |
| Mr. Okrasa wrote: |
.
BTW: Does anybody have a "known good" Judson coil with nice decals they may want to sell?
The owner of this engine asked me to put the word out there.....Thanks.
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Check with BBT Bob. He had a few at one time. |
I checked BBT's website and showed nothing related to Judson......... |
You should reach out to him directly, many of the things that BBT are doing are updated on other social media, and do not always make it onto their web site
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5971
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
I’ve done it three times. There were minimal fitment issues with the 36hp tins. I’m not sure I’d use the EMPI one though. I know of one guy who has a colossal failure with his, the internal fins collapsed on the 3/4 side. The SCAT ones are supposed to be better.
Interesting approach on using step down studs. I always hog out the holes enough for the stock studs to fit. So far no problem.
I also can’t say for sure it makes a difference, I’m just doing it based on the idea that VW did it to improve cooling over the old design. But then I’ve read some Berg article somewhere that the after market shrouds don’t work as well as stock. So like with most things once you venture out of the stock world you have to make your own call and live with it. |
My experience is that the new shrouds from Scat are much better than what was offered 10-15 years ago, and are certainly better than the aftermarket shrouds being sold when Berg was writing articles.. I had a 36hp style shroud on one of my cars in the 90's and it did not have a single vane inside to direct the air.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Bub
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 1155
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| esde wrote: |
My experience is that the new shrouds from Scat are much better than what was offered 10-15 years ago, and are certainly better than the aftermarket shrouds being sold when Berg was writing articles.. I had a 36hp style shroud on one of my cars in the 90's and it did not have a single vane inside to direct the air. |
I have a SCAT shroud on a 1600 I'm building and there are very few differences between it and the OEM VW doghouse shroud. Internal vanes and rear ducting of the shroud are generally the same shape and same location as the original. The metal is the same gauge and it's generally more or less totally the same in every way that matters. I have to do a some tweaking to fit the thermostat setup, but a little work and that seems to fit great also. Anything that matched any closer would be OEM- and you can always find a tiny bit of variation in those also.
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| hitest wrote: |
| Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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NestaVaughn
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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Love this, and all your work. I have just recently got a 36 for my single cab- I live in Mesa, AZ, and this is on my list of future modifications. Out of curiosity does this setup allow for any type of thermostat? If so, it would appear to be the later style doghouse flap type, no? I see you have the velocity ring in the fan shroud intake so the 36hp style probably wouldn’t fit… also, which aftermarket shroud did you use, or did you just weld on the doghouse sheet metal onto a real 36hp shroud and modify as needed from there. And last question (for now): when you full-flow these motors, and when you put the doghouse cooler on, do you use a larger size oil pump? And if so, do you have to plug the oil pump output hole in the case? I’m very new to motor workings, so I’m sorry if these are redundant questions… I hope someday to have a motor built by you, I drool over the gold-coloring of the factory case chemical sealant. NOTHIN beats the lumpy idle of a 25/36hp motor, or the look of the hard metal fuel lines and the colors of the parts….
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04/59 Single Cab |
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Mr. Okrasa
Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000
Posts: 727
Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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| NestaVaughn wrote: |
| Love this, and all your work. I have just recently got a 36 for my single cab- I live in Mesa, AZ, and this is on my list of future modifications. Out of curiosity does this setup allow for any type of thermostat? If so, it would appear to be the later style doghouse flap type, no? I see you have the velocity ring in the fan shroud intake so the 36hp style probably wouldn’t fit… also, which aftermarket shroud did you use, or did you just weld on the doghouse sheet metal onto a real 36hp shroud and modify as needed from there. And last question (for now): when you full-flow these motors, and when you put the doghouse cooler on, do you use a larger size oil pump? And if so, do you have to plug the oil pump output hole in the case? I’m very new to motor workings, so I’m sorry if these are redundant questions… I hope someday to have a motor built by you, I drool over the gold-coloring of the factory case chemical sealant. NOTHIN beats the lumpy idle of a 25/36hp motor, or the look of the hard metal fuel lines and the colors of the parts…. |
Hello. I'll answer your questions in order:
There is no provision for adding a thermostat especially with the spiral coiled copper oil cooler.
I used the EMPI repop dog-house style fan housing with some mods....
The oil pump that I use in all my 25hp / 36hp engine builds is a HD 1300cc oil pump with 26mm gears.
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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petrol punk
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 978
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Judson Supercharged 36'er / Dog House Cooled.... |
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Are the crank and genny pulley stock size? Using the stock pulleys with a doghouse fan sounds like overkill. I can't get my stock 36hp with a 40hp fan to run hot in the Vegas weather, but I'm not sure how much heat the Judson adds.
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36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma |
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