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Summer 2024 project
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:46 am    Post subject: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Picked up this single cab and had delivered to Idaho. Gunna be a fun project. Combination of White House paint, rust and wood paneling. Has 6 volt setup. Having issues and I wanna preface that my extent of mechanical ability is changing a fuel filter and that’s it.

Got bus to idle good
Starts fine but slow with. 6 volt

As soon as you let clutch out to go, you really have to rev or it dies

When you drive it stays going fine and gets up to 45 in 4th

Anytime you push clutch in or go to neutral for more than 10 seconds. The bus gen lights come on and it dies. Restarts and we start all over

Have mechanic helping this week but iam losing sleep

Can’t access carb bolts very well
Changed fuel filter. What would cause the instant dying and or under a load it won’t run. My plan anyways was to dump for a new 1776 and 12 volt swing fri. Wright gearbox . Thanks fellas

Scott
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BulliBill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Wow, an "H" block crankcase! So many possibilities from the photos and your brief description. If you are not mechanical, you bought he right old project to learn, pretty simple machines! Look in the "Split-Bus" FAQ's for tons of info and help to diagnosis and learn to work on your Bus. Here is the link to the FAQ's:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71827

Consider properly inspecting and servicing your entire brake system with new parts before getting the Bus to "go" properly. For obvious reasons you need to be certain that it'll stop properly before you make it "go" anywhere.

Since you might be switching to another engine in the future, to get this one more happy and healthy you can do a few things. From the photos, it looks like that engine hasn't had a good servicing in a long, long time. I'm guessing a proper carb rebuild and fuel pump rebuild is definitely in your future. The fuel leaving the bottom of your tank may be restricted by the unseen in-tank screen filter "sock" being dirty and clogged. Is that a second fuel tank neck/filler on the left side of the Bus? Your old fuel pump may not be providing the proper output fuel pressure to the carb (either too much or too little fuel pressure). Your carb may need at the least proper adjusting, and at the most a thorough rebuild. It appears that you have a "centrifugal advance" distributor and a "vacuum advance" carburetor that generally don't work too well together (find a correct vacuum advance distributor and connection hose to pair up with that carb).

Consider investing in the best service manual(s) for a Split-Bus. The "Workshop Manual - Volkswagen Transporters - 1963-67" published by Robert Bentley ( https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=book4 ) is the very best (but expensive and well worth the cost!) manual to acquire and read, also the "Idiot Book" written by John Muir ( https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=book7 ) is another great manual to teach you the basics in simple language with lots of illustrations.

Hopefully you have a good mechanic to assist you and show you the ropes so you can bring that old Single-Cab back to health and road worthiness.

Welcome to the wonderful world of old Split-Buses!

Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!


Last edited by BulliBill on Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

BulliBill wrote:
So many possibilities from the photos and your brief description. If you are not mechanical, you bought he right old project to learn, pretty simple machines! Look in the "Split-Bus" FAQ's for tons of info and help to diagnosis and learn to work on your Bus. Here is the link to the FAQ's:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71827

Consider properly inspecting and servicing your entire brake system with new parts before getting the Bus to "go" properly. For obvious reasons you need to be certain that it'll stop properly before you make it "go" anywhere.

From the photos, it looks like that engine hasn't had a good servicing in a long, long time. I'm guessing a proper carb rebuild and fuel pump rebuild is definitely in your future. The fuel leaving the bottom of your tank may be restricted by the unseen in-tank screen filter "sock" being dirty and clogged. Is that a second fuel tank neck/filler on the left side of the Bus? Your old fuel pump may not be providing the proper output fuel pressure to the carb (either too much or too little fuel pressure). Your carb may need at the least proper adjusting, and at the most a thorough rebuild. It appears that you have a "centrifugal advance" distributor and a "vacuum advance" carburetor that generally don't work too well together (find a correct vacuum advance distributor and connection hose to pair up with that carb).

Consider investing in the best service manual(s) for a Split-Bus. The "Workshop Manual - Volkswagen Transporters - 1963-67" published by Robert Bentley ( https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=book4 ) is the very best (but expensive and well worth the cost!) manual to acquire and read, also the "Idiot Book" written by John Muir ( https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=book7 ) is another great manual to teach you the basics in simple language with lots of illustrations.

Hopefully you have a good mechanic to assist you and show you the ropes so you can bring that old Single-Cab back to health and road worthiness.

Welcome to the wonderful world of old Split-Buses!

Bill


Nice to hear from you sir

Brakes good
Stops great
Yeah engine is filthy and tired
That fuel tank is disconnected and empty looks stupid
Topped off tank and seafoamed.
I did change filter and it had or appeared to have zero debris and junk
Like I said idles like a dream, dies as soon as you even think about leaving gear and slowing to a stop

Thanks bill
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BulliBill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Yep, you're welcome! Yes, I can see the aluminum in-line fuel filter that you are talking about, but the filter that I was talking about is a simple screen/mesh filter sock that is up inside the original VW fuel tank. The sock filter tries to catches any debris in the fuel tank before it exits into the fuel line. It is right on top of the tank's output tube. You can't see that sock without emptying the fuel from your tank, then removing it from the tank to see if it is clean or clogged which might restrict fuel flow towards the engine. I'd bet it hasn't been seen or checked by anyone in a long time. And if you and your mechanic do all that, you might as well replace all the old rubber fuel lines of unknown age and internal condition with fresh new lines that are ethanol-resistant to avoid old lines cracking/failing and starting an engine fire. Since your engine currently runs somewhat, some fuel is obviously getting from the original tank thru it's "sock filter" and thru your new filter and thru the fuel pump to the carb, but is the flow enough? Are there restrictions in those various components along the fuel path from the fuel tank to the engine. It is fairly easy to check and clean up. You adding Seafoam was a good move to help dissolve any fuel varnish thru the fuel system.

Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

BulliBill wrote:
Yep, you're welcome! Yes, I can see the aluminum in-line fuel filter that you are talking about, but the filter that I was talking about is a simple screen/mesh filter sock that is up inside the original VW fuel tank. The sock filter tries to catches any debris in the fuel tank before it exits into the fuel line. It is right on top of the tank's output tube. You can't see that sock without emptying the fuel from your tank, then removing it from the tank to see if it is clean or clogged which might restrict fuel flow towards the engine. I'd bet it hasn't been seen or checked by anyone in a long time. And if you and your mechanic do all that, you might as well replace all the old rubber fuel lines of unknown age and internal condition with fresh new lines that are ethanol-resistant to avoid old lines cracking/failing and starting an engine fire. Since your engine currently runs somewhat, some fuel is obviously getting from the original tank thru it's "sock filter" and thru your new filter and thru the fuel pump to the carb, but is the flow enough? Are there restrictions in those various components along the fuel path from the fuel tank to the engine. It is fairly easy to check and clean up. You adding Seafoam was a good move to help dissolve any fuel varnish thru the fuel system.

Bill

what’s weird is if you floor it when you drive it goes, when you floor it in neutral it opens wide open

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly
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velvetgreen
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Looks like a promising start on a bus. Did they switch out the fuel tank for a non stock one? I see what appears to be gas tank routed out on drivers side as opposed to passenger?
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

velvetgreen wrote:
Looks like a promising start on a bus. Did they switch out the fuel tank for a non stock one? I see what appears to be gas tank routed out on drivers side as opposed to passenger?


They tried to make some kind of dual tanks

The original is connected and working I think it looks stupid
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Sure sounds like a fuel issue. I wouldn't go plonking several thousand on a new engine just yet; send in your (or buy outright) new pump and carbs from Sparkswerks and Volkzbitz... maybe rebuild or rebuilt dizzy as well if there are still engine issues. But a few hudred bucks on the fuel system may get you going and you find you don't need nor want the big engine.

Also, the interior has a certain charm :)

Get it running as it should, drive and enjoy it for a while, make plans on what you decide you still want to change. Dont be in a hurry to spend big money.
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

70bus wrote:
Sure sounds like a fuel issue. I wouldn't go plonking several thousand on a new engine just yet; send in your (or buy outright) new pump and carbs from Sparkswerks and Volkzbitz... maybe rebuild or rebuilt dizzy as well if there are still engine issues. But a few hudred bucks on the fuel system may get you going and you find you don't need nor want the big engine.

Also, the interior has a certain charm Smile

Get it running as it should, drive and enjoy it for a while, make plans on what you decide you still want to change. Dont be in a hurry to spend big money.


Solid brother!
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Scbrice
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

[quote="Scbrice"]
70bus wrote:
Sure sounds like a fuel issue. I wouldn't go plonking several thousand on a new engine just yet; send in your (or buy outright) new pump and carbs from Sparkswerks and Volkzbitz... maybe rebuild or rebuilt dizzy as well if there are still engine issues. But a few hudred bucks on the fuel system may get you going and you find you don't need nor want the big engine.

Also, the interior has a certain charm Smile

Get it running as it should, drive and enjoy it for a while, make plans on what you decide you still want to change. Dont be in a hurry to spend big money.


The inside won’t be changing except for a good deep cleaning and maybe eventually recovering seat.

As for the engine idk what’s going on, but it’s basically un drivable. But I’ll sort it out. I only said new engine and trans cause I quickly did those with my other two rigs. I had zero desire to get them running

Thanks again
Scott
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly


When you take it out of gear driving is that with the clutch still pushed in ?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Scbrice wrote:

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly


When you take it out of gear driving is that with the clutch still pushed in ?


I have done both. Pushed clutch in and let it die
Pushed clutch in. Goto neutral and let clutch out and it still dies within 10 seconds
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:
BarryL wrote:
Scbrice wrote:

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly


When you take it out of gear driving is that with the clutch still pushed in ?


I have done both. Pushed clutch in and let it die
Pushed clutch in. Goto neutral and let clutch out and it still dies within 10 seconds

Also when it’s idling the tempo and noise changes the gen light seems to flicker on then off on then off
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:

what’s weird is if you floor it when you drive it goes, when you floor it in neutral it opens wide open

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly


That sounds like the fuel shutoff solenoid plunger isn't retracting (the cylinder sticking out of the right side of your carb with the wire attached to its end, in your picture above).

With the ignition in the 'on' position, but the engine not running, pull that wire off the terminal and touch it back against the terminal to energise it. Each time you touch it against the terminal, you should hear a definite 'click' as it energises and pulls the plunger out of the idle fuel circuit.

If it doesn't click; try removing the solenoid and trying it again, while touching the body to a a metal part of the engine.

If it still doesn't click and shoot the plunger out, then it's dead - buy a new one, they're cheap.

If it works out of the carb, then the plunger may just be sticking in its bore. I had one that did that for years. Loosening it and retightening it usually freed it up. Be careful not to strip the thread in the carb though.
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Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
Scbrice wrote:

what’s weird is if you floor it when you drive it goes, when you floor it in neutral it opens wide open

As soon as you take out of gear driving or push clutch in for over 10 seconds it dies instantly


That sounds like the fuel shutoff solenoid plunger isn't retracting (the cylinder sticking out of the right side of your carb with the wire attached to its end, in your picture above).

With the ignition in the 'on' position, but the engine not running, pull that wire off the terminal and touch it back against the terminal to energise it. Each time you touch it against the terminal, you should hear a definite 'click' as it energises and pulls the plunger out of the idle fuel circuit.

If it doesn't click; try removing the solenoid and trying it again, while touching the body to a a metal part of the engine.

If it still doesn't click and shoot the plunger out, then it's dead - buy a new one, they're cheap.

If it works out of the carb, then the plunger may just be sticking in its bore. I had one that did that for years. Loosening it and retightening it usually freed it up. Be careful not to strip the thread in the carb though.


I can’t seem to find a replacement that matches my year and voltage. What do you suggest. And why would a fuel shutoff make the engine die?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:
I can’t seem to find a replacement that matches my year and voltage. What do you suggest.


Test it before condemning it. If it's dead, the replacement will depend on the model of carburetor, not necessarily the year of the truck.

Scbrice wrote:
And why would a fuel shutoff make the engine die?


It closes off the idle fuel circuit when it's deenergised. That's the circuit that pulls fuel at low revs (idling and/or very low speeds).

Typical symptom is that the engine will run when revved (basically, the engine is running on the main or mid-range circuits), but die when the revs fall to the level where it would run on the idle circuit, because the idle circuit is blocked by the non-functioning shutoff solenoid.

It'll usually also run when on choke.

I tended to find that mine would die when I disengaged the clutch. With the clutch engaged, the wheels effectively drive the engine, keeping everything running. With that drive disengaged, the engine dies when the revs drop.

The purpose of the shutoff solenoid is to prevent 'dieselling' or 'run-on' when you turn off the ignition.
In that case; the momentum of the flywheel can keep the crank turning which keeps: -
>fuel pumping (mechanical fuel pump driven off the still-rotating crank)
>fuel entering the intake (drawn through the idle circuit in the carb, by the vacuum of the descending pistons), and
>the ignition system generating a spark (the generator or alternator keeps generating, powering the coil, and the distributor keeps distributing, both because the engine is turning),
so the engine has what it needs to keep running. That can cause it to cough and splutter to a stop, rather than shutting off cleanly when you turn off the ignition.
The solution was to automatically block the idle circuit when the ignition is switched off (deenergising the shutoff solenoid) to starve the carburetor idle circuit of fuel.
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Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
Scbrice wrote:
I can’t seem to find a replacement that matches my year and voltage. What do you suggest.


Test it before condemning it. If it's dead, the replacement will depend on the model of carburetor, not necessarily the year of the truck.

Scbrice wrote:
And why would a fuel shutoff make the engine die?


It closes off the idle fuel circuit when it's deenergised. That's the circuit that pulls fuel at low revs (idling and/or very low speeds).

Typical symptom is that the engine will run when revved (basically, the engine is running on the main or mid-range circuits), but die when the revs fall to the level where it would run on the idle circuit, because the idle circuit is blocked by the non-functioning shutoff solenoid.

It'll usually also run when on choke.

I tended to find that mine would die when I disengaged the clutch. With the clutch engaged, the wheels effectively drive the engine, keeping everything running. With that drive disengaged, the engine dies when the revs drop.

The purpose of the shutoff solenoid is to prevent 'dieselling' or 'run-on' when you turn off the ignition.
In that case; the momentum of the flywheel can keep the crank turning which keeps: -
>fuel pumping (mechanical fuel pump driven off the still-rotating crank)
>fuel entering the intake (drawn through the idle circuit in the carb, by the vacuum of the descending pistons), and
>the ignition system generating a spark (the generator or alternator keeps generating and the distributor keeps distributing, because the engine is turning),
so the engine has what it needs to keep running. That can cause it to cough and splutter to a stop, rather than shutting off cleanly when you turn off the ignition.
The solution was to automatically block the idle circuit when the ignition is switched off (deenergising the shutoff solenoid) to starve the carburetor idle circuit of fuel.


Finally an answer I was looking for thanks so much ! You described to a T my symptoms

If it is not not working can I use a 12 volt solenoid. Can’t seem to find a replacement. Also what do folks use for a plug? That would seem to not solve it either as zero fuel would enter.

Thanks again. I’ll see if it’s even working
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:


If it is not not working can I use a 12 volt solenoid. Can’t seem to find a replacement.


Not sure. Have a look at the left hand side of the carb for the model number. I'm guessing it's one of the 30 PICT range because the solenoid is on the right hand side. (I had to Google before suggesting it might be the solenoid, because I thought they were fitted on the left side on the Solex carbs that used them. Looks like 30 PICT range is different(?)).

Have a look here...
https://www.volkszone.com/threads/solex-31-pict-3-on-6v-bug.1601417/
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=643864&start=0
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7642821#7642821
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Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
Scbrice wrote:


If it is not not working can I use a 12 volt solenoid. Can’t seem to find a replacement.


Not sure. Have a look at the left hand side of the carb for the model number. I'm guessing it's one of the 30 PICT range because the solenoid is on the right hand side. (I had to Google before suggesting it might be the solenoid, because I thought they were fitted on the left side on the Solex carbs that used them. Looks like 30 PICT range is different(?)).

Have a look here...
https://www.volkszone.com/threads/solex-31-pict-3-on-6v-bug.1601417/
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=643864&start=0
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7642821#7642821


Says VW 78-1 which led me to think 34 pict
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2024 project Reply with quote

Scbrice wrote:


Says VW 78-1 which led me to think 34 pict


That must be the flange/base number. From this thread, that would be a 30 PICT-1 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5695407#5695407

Quote:
VW 78-1 30PICT-1 131905205 BUS 1500 8/65 115 135z 0.75 w/o ball 12V - 60 pilot


I did some more reading about the 30 PICT solenoid and it functions differently to the 34PICT style. The 34 PICT type solenoid (which is what I have) is effectively a stopper that blocks off the passage in the carb. The 30 PICT style is an actual idle jet with a needle retracted by the solenoid, so you could replace it with a standard idle jet if you can't find a 6V solenoid and hope it doesn't diesel.

But that assumes it is the solenoid...
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Looking for info on my truck's history. Are you from Campbell California or nearby. Do you recognise it? ... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636786
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