TheSamba.com :: View topic - Bought 85 Joker Jubilee to drive home from Chile, now dead.

Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:01 pm

Hello Samba (Merry Christmas!).

Like many, I have been lurking and learning on the samba for some time.

I am no VW expert but am unafraid of working on cars. Way back when, I was brought home from the hospital in a 73’ squareback. I brought my own son home in a ’91 Golf hatchback. Since June 2013, I have been a visiting professor of Geology on sabbatical in Concepcion, Chile. Long before our arrival, we fascinated about the idea of driving home. A pre-89’ vanagon camper seemed like our best option as the import would be relatively easy and camping would make the journey affordable. I looked into the options in Chile and after 6 months of searching settled on a rare 1985 Joker Jubilee (Jubiläums Joker) located 7 hours north in Santiago. The special model commemorates the production of the 250,000th Westfalia. From a look around, these appear very rare.

I completed the sale on Dec 17th. Within 6 hours of driving at moderate highway speeds with no warning signs the power disappeared, white smoke emerged and I pulled over within ~15 seconds. A thin trail of oil led up to the van and a small puddle collected beneath as we quickly unloaded luggage, extinguisher in hand. Opening the hatch, there was only a small smattering of oil mostly on the passenger side, near the head gasket. Looking into the coolant reservoir (not pressurized), an oily dark soup sunk my spirits (the previous owner had used a ceramic additive, explaining the dark color). As there was no option for roadside repair, I had the van towed to Concepcion and currently have a mechanic diagnosing the problem. The question is, “what next?”

I know there are a few options for what could have gone wrong: (a) cracked block, (b) blown gasket. As summer vacation has now begun, I can dedicate a fair amount of time to renovating the van before heading north in May. If the block is cracked, the options are to find a replacement volkswagon or other make engine here or have an engine shipped down from the states. I have heard of shops in Peru that have done Subaru conversions but have not found a similar shop yet in Chile. My concern with the conversion is that the 85 Joker is an OEM 5 speed (Watercooled 1.9 Litre Otto Motor DG (1913cc) 57 Kw 78PS 5 speed manual gearbox, carbureted) which is not common in the US and may complicated some of the conversion kits.

Regardless of the engine repair, I will take the opportunity to upgrade a lot of the other systems while doing big work: fuel, cooling, brakes, bearings, etc. The suspension had already been redone by the previous owner (gowesty springs and ranchos).

My big question to the community is…what would you do regarding the engine replacement if you were in my shoes?

Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:20 pm

Check out your push rod tubes.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:39 am

First off, looks like you got a sweet rig there! :D

If I were in your position, I would first wait for diagnosis. Might be something simple and you can be on your way again. If the engine is toast then I might pursue looking for a good suby swapper in the area. If the price was right (got to imagine cheaper than the states) I might consider it.
Otherwise I would look to rebuild what you have or look for another replacement motor in the area.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:37 am

Hello,, you may want to check with the guys from Kleinbus in Santiago, im sure they can give you some ideas of mechanics or maybe another engine.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:53 am

I suspect it will turn out to be fixable. Could you explain the comment about dark coolant and then about a ,ceramic, additive? It was dark when u bought it and ceramic is reason? Or it suddenly got dark when this happened?

Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:40 am

I've never heard of that edition, pretty cool. They all came with 5-speeds, insulated windows, and gold grills and wheel covers according to this site:

http://www.westfaliat3.info/html/westfalia_t3_jubilee_edition_j.html

http://vwtessiejubileejoker.blogspot.com/2012/10/vw-westfalia-jubilee-joker.html

Good luck with your repairs!

Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:49 am

The pictures provided only shows "the end of the trail" of the problem. We need to see pictures of where the oil is coming from if you want better advise.

At this time, you probably have a diagnosis from the mechanic. Pictures posted here will trigger knowledgeable people to help you better.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:58 am

Looks like some possible homebrewed exhaust on that thing. Anybody know whats going on there?

Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:04 am

Bostig or Subaru...ditch the stock motor and move on.
The van looks nice.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:02 am

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: Looks like some possible homebrewed exhaust on that thing. Anybody know whats going on there?

Yeah i saw that too... Adaptation from an aircooled vw beetle muffler that are plentiful over there?

Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:10 am

I think the exhaust is factory; I saw a similar setup on the Syncro being displayed in the VW Commercial Vehicles pavilion at the Autostadt. Muffler is the same as '72-'74 US-spec Bay Bus, factory adapter to pipes to connect it to the WBX engine, and an additional angle adapter to tuck the muffler up for clearance.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:33 am

Summers420us wrote: If I were in your position, I would first wait for diagnosis. Might be something simple and you can be on your way again.

+1
Try to keep optimistic until you know you have a major issue.

If you go the conversion route, you might loose some of the "rarity" that makes your van such a find; something to keep in mind.
Trade-offs considered, personally I'd still convert if the motor were really shot.

Nice van; congrats!

Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:05 pm

ya interesting re: exhaust. At first glance, I had to wonder if there was an air cooled engine in there!

Sorry to hear of your woes though it sounds like you're able and available to do some work yourself.

Though I'm a fan of engine conversions, +2 on keeping the engine OEM. (and for the record am NOT against the WBX. I own one and in some ways like it)

I'm pretty sure that the 5 spd. doesn't inhibit a given engine conversion. The position of the transmission may change things (engine supports) depending on which engine conversion one might use.

Neil.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:24 pm

I would certainly find out what is wrong with what you have before doing any thinking of a non WBXer engine swapped. Hopefully your problems are minor. I would avoid doing a conversion using an mechanic who has not done any high end conversion work before, you need something really clean if you are wanting to have a dependable rig and most mechanics aren't up to that. Have no idea on the import tariffs to Chile, but I would be thinking of a Vanistan or Go Westy rebuild if you need an engine and the taxes aren't too bad.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:51 pm

IMHO, part of which reinforces some of what others have said ...

If the engine can be reliably repaired, that's the way I would go for now down there. Have all the other systems and hoses checked out too before a return trip.

Presuming the worst regarding the existing engine, I'd do a conversion down there only if there was a reliable, proven mechanic available ... subie or zetec.

A conversion would likely not hurt the value of the vehicle uniqueness or rarity. The exception would be those who prefer stock or german with german. But there are far more who would consider it value added.

Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:35 pm

pedrokrusher wrote: Rocky Mountain Westy wrote: Looks like some possible homebrewed exhaust on that thing. Anybody know whats going on there?

Yeah i saw that too... Adaptation from an aircooled vw beetle muffler that are plentiful over there?

Home made or factory, I would think the heat exchanger is for carb pre heat.. Pretty slick

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:17 am

Hello All.

Thanks for your advice and suggestions. My mechanic has now completed his diagnosis and I have information and pictures to share as well as more questions for you. As a reminder:

-1985 Joker Jubilee,
-1.9L DG engine, 5 speed ABN transmission
-Bought and 6 hours later leaked coolant and oil during highway driving. Pulled over as soon as white smoke was spotted.
-Our goal is to repair and restore the vehicle to a sufficient quality that we can drive home from Chile to the USA over three months (May-Aug, 2014)

The mechanic took off the heads and valve covers to diagnose and in summary found that the lips of the place where the cylinder mates with the head is pitted, dented and likely not able to make a good seal with the cylinders. Interestingly, there was little corrosion around water jacket seal ('head gasket') as many others have reported. The mechanic suggest that this cumulative damage would be tough to repair by machining and that the extent of corrosion in the cooling system is extensive. He suggests that the motor has not been well cared for (low coolant, water creating scale, etc.). As a consequence, it is like a time-bomb and that even if we fix the heads and reseal the system, there will likely be another failure.

The big questions I now have are:
-Given what we now know, is there good reason to go through the process of restoring this engine? Are the issues here easily resolved? I worry that I might be able to get this running again, but because of the state of the other parts of the motor/cooling system, there are likely to be future issues.
-From my research, there are no experts in vanagon engine replacements in Chile. I have heard from other travelers that there are good builders in Peru, but that is too far for me to tow the vehicle. Though my mechanic is competent and confident with Subarus, he has a back-yard shop and does not like messing with electrical. This suggests that a subaru replacement won't work. I think I could find a zetech and get a bostig kit shipped down...but this will take time, months of time. Is replacement still the best option? If dependability over the long drive home is a priority, I think that I need to go Bostig and replace the current cooling system. Thoughts?

(Here are the photos and comments)

During the diagnosis, the mechanic snapped the threaded tips off these long screws (one in the blue bin). The tip are still inside the motor and he worries that they will be hard to extract? Any advice or experience with this?

You can see the scale and oil inside the block once the seal was breached. The mechanic worries that there might be other problems deeper inside that he has not yet identified. Here are rear and forward images of the two cylinders.

Here are images of the head with the damage around the cylinder-mating lip. Note the dents around the edge. Are these from corosion or a botched reassembly some time back? Note that there is little pitting on the flat surfaces of the head.

As a previous poster asked, here is an image of the ceramic additive (LiquiMolly) that the PO used. Maybe he used this because he know that there were problems brewing.

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:31 am

Don't know how others do it, but I would think that using an induction heater would be the way to remove the head studs. You are going to want to do all of them, not just the broken one.

http://www.amazon.com/Bolt-BusterTM-Magnetic-Induction-Included/dp/B00ATSL7VE

I would think it possible that one of these units could just be built using locally available materials, thought about it but never tried it.

http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/diy-induction-heater.htm

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:50 am

It sounds as if your mechanic is not interested in repairing your current engine. What is he suggesting?

Have you looked for any VeeDub Clubs in your area? Perhaps a replacement motor is sitting in someone's nearby garage...

All is not lost, hang in there. It is a beautiful van and once you get this sorted you will be sure to have many happy miles.

Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:02 pm

Try contacting Juan. I know he is on the other side of Argentina from you but he may know of some contacts in Chile (or a reference to a club).

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5...;start=140

Edit:

Maybe this will help....

http://westfaliaclub.blogspot.com/