TheSamba.com :: View topic - COOLED brand Engine fanshrouds and engine tin.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:31 pm

Yep we know how you think.. Out of the box, in the box, around the box, screwy, logical, detailed or totaly off the wall .

But I like having you around, because you are never boring. Ha!!!

Serious the Scat fanhousing eventhough the chrome rusted, was a good piece, nice internal vanes and worked great with stock flaps.

I have a DTM and my grandson says to install it because it looks so cool. Yep Cool is the problem I am having problems getting the 36 unit up to warming temp with flaps and 90c thermo. The DTM has neither. Cool looking vs running to cool. But that is this engine, if I run a larger T-4 on it goes. It is an amazing piece.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:13 pm

nextgen wrote: Bruce, you are totally wrong!!

This is what you said;
"Neither a copyright nor a patent could exist for this type of engine part. It's a non-issue".

I pulled out my Copyright for my Cali Deco Floating Pen. That's right a pen.
The pen is at my site www.nextgen-usa.com

Cost me $30 back in Aug 11, 1999.
Stamped with the Library of Congress Seal TXU 914-068

Under Type of Authorship which is covered:
Text
Illustrations
Photographs
Compilations of terms and data

The only thing this copyright does not cover is Movies.

So explain how a pen suspended by a magnet can be copyrighted and fan housing cannot.

Ummm, no. You've got a copyright on the description you wrote of your pen. So if someone rewrites your description you've got them by the balls. If they just copy the pen, you've got nothing. Bruce is right, the shroud would fall under patent law (no longer active), and trademark law (you'll get your ass sued off if you use the VW logo, otherwise you're ok).

Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:33 pm

This may be silly, but has anyone ever tried making a shroud and fan,stockish but just a half-inch or so WIDER?

it would just need matching top cylinder tins , and then wider thermostat flaps... Just a thought.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:43 pm

FreeBug wrote: This may be silly, but has anyone ever tried making a shroud and fan,stockish but just a half-inch or so WIDER?

it would just need matching top cylinder tins , and then wider thermostat flaps... Just a thought.
Bigger isn't always better.

My 2180 runs as cool as stock with all factory tin, Type 1 cooler, remote filter, 1.5qt sump, flaps and thermostat. Wider might be too cool.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:04 pm

I am running CB Street Eliminator Heads on a 2180 and they say they run hot, not to say it I am not sure how hot but I am running a FI Shroud with is a DogHouse with Velocity Ring and I really never see over 332 degrees on the CHT gauge. This is on the highway as well pushing like 3,600 RPMs. Also on the back roads and other driving the temps are lower, so wider as Glenn said may not be the answer... Just properly set-up tins and all is the answer. RB

Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:31 pm

A 1/2"wider fan would take maybe 10-15 more horsepower to turn.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:52 pm

Glen, I don't doubt that your engine is awesome, and keeps great temps, but what happens to your temps when you drive at 100 mph + for an hour or so?

On mine, although head temps stay stable with stock cylinders, my oil temps just climb, and I'm thinking on a bigger engine (2000 ccc+), head temps might do the same.

I have runaway haed temps on my thick-wall 88s, and generally speaking, as more horespower means more heat, like say when porsche did their 4-cam, or when VW made the type 4, they increased the fan size/air flow.

Now whether the heads can use more air, without increasing fin area, is another matter...but looking at the CT engine, with a type 4 fan and type 1 heads, they had to take OFF a fin from the heads, it's only 50 hp or so... how much hp continuous use could it cool with the fin back?

Thinking out loud...

Thanks for the feedback.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:41 pm

FreeBug wrote: ....... when you drive at 100 mph + for an hour or so? Your gas tank isn't big enough to do that.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:02 pm

FreeBug wrote: Glen, I don't doubt that your engine is awesome, and keeps great temps, but what happens to your temps when you drive at 100 mph + for an hour or so?
I don't drive 100mpg +.... it's just unsafe. But i have driven 75-80mph for an hour through the hills of Connecticut in August and oil temps never went over 215*F. I did put a tennis ball on the decklid latch to allow hot air to exit and so my IDAs can breath and not suck air away from the fan.

BTW... i have a Berg 5 with a 0.82 5th and a 3.875 r/p.

Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:38 pm

Hi The2ndcashboy, if you go back to my original post on this. I am only talking about once the design has been copyrighted, which it was, that is proof it is my idea as of the date of the copyright. Even is if it is Patented after, I have an argument it was my original idea. As I mentioned it is a lot better then the guy that put his design on a Napkin in a diner and went up against GM for Intermittent Windshield wipers and won.

Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:08 am

Most engines run hot because of improper combo and/or tune. Sloppy fitting tin will make a big difference as well.

Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:24 am

The air-cooled fanhousing is like - Goldilocks and the three bears.

Very little margin for error. - Not too hot , not too cold, it has to be just right!!!!

Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:10 am

nextgen wrote: Hi The2ndcashboy, if you go back to my original post on this. I am only talking about once the design has been copyrighted, which it was, that is proof it is my idea as of the date of the copyright. Even is if it is Patented after, I have an argument it was my original idea. As I mentioned it is a lot better then the guy that put his design on a Napkin in a diner and went up against GM for Intermittent Windshield wipers and won.

The intermittent wiper guy won his money because he had a PATENT that he filed in 1964, and the Big 3 started using intermittent wipers in 1969 (before his patent ran out, they do that you know). Drawings on a napkin mean shit without a patent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kearns

Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:58 pm

Typical yanks! Everyone knows Lucas invented intermittent wipers.......just not on purpose! :lol:

Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:38 pm

FreeBug wrote: Typical yanks! Everyone knows Lucks invented intermittent wipers.......just not on purpose! :lol:
I always figured that Lucas invented intermittent wipers -- they work every once and a while.

Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:40 am

nextgen wrote: Bruce, you are totally wrong!!

This is what you said;
"Neither a copyright nor a patent could exist for this type of engine part. It's a non-issue".

I pulled out my Copyright for my Cali Deco Floating Pen. That's right a pen.
The pen is at my site www.nextgen-usa.com

Cost me $30 back in Aug 11, 1999.
Stamped with the Library of Congress Seal TXU 914-068

Under Type of Authorship which is covered:
Text
Illustrations
Photographs
Compilations of terms and data

The only thing this copyright does not cover is Movies.

So explain how a pen suspended by a magnet can be copyrighted and fan housing cannot.

As a lawyer, in my opinion, you can't copyright a pen. Just as you described above, your copyright covers "text, illustrations, photographs and compilations of terms and data." All fair works over which copyright may apply. No where does it say it covers the actual pen. If the pen contains some novel invention, it may be covered by patent. If it has a unique look, it may be covered by a registered industrial design. But copyright, no. Just the "works" surrounding the pen (drawings, photos, written descriptions, etc) are described above, and covered by copyright.

Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:46 pm

Hi Northof49, seeing your are a lawyer, I am sure you will understand the reason I applied for the copyright. It was only to have a “official record of the date that my unique design was created”. I sent in pages of mechanical drawings of the design. Being Illustrations, they were copyrighted. I was advised to do it by a Patent Attorney that worked with me when I was doing R&D designs for well known elevator company in NYC. He said all it would do is prove that this was my design as of the date the illustrations were copyrighted. It would add to protection of my creation if I decided to apply for a patent. He also advised me only to show the design and not to give any dimensions, like size?
www.nextgen-usa.com is my pen site.

Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:57 pm

what was the point of this thread again?

seriously, I forget.. was it some new fan shroud, or are we just trying ot figure out who VW's lawyers are going after next?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:10 pm

tattooed_pariah wrote: what was the point of this thread again?

seriously, I forget.. was it some new fan shroud, or are we just trying ot figure out who VW's lawyers are going after next?

X2

Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:06 pm

X3

brad