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Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:38 pm

Polestar. I doubt very much that a Polestar will be useful any place near either Pole. To darn cold.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 2:49 pm

EV sales in the US continue to grow as mid adopters realise owning a vehicle for 5% edge cases isn’t economical. Sort of like 80% of the pickups that never haul anything, or the personal cars that don’t drive from LA to SFO like Forbes thinks.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 3:47 pm

A whole lot of word vomit for a simple issue…
If you like it and it works for you buy an EV. If not move on.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 5:43 pm

zerotofifty wrote:

Keep also in mind that these electric cars do tend to cost more than normal cars

yep.. and lose value like mad :lol:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2023-fisker-ocean...ew%20ones.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:18 pm

kingkarmann wrote: A whole lot of word vomit for a simple issue…
If you like it and it works for you buy an EV. If not move on.

That would be my viewpoint, but the issues is tax or power rate payer subsidies of the electric cars, mandates to end gas car sales, and gasoline price increases designed to force folks out of their gasoline cars.
If only the electric car advocates would have the attitude of.. If you like a gasoline car, and it works for you, then we will leave you be. But no, the electric car advocates want to force these satanic cars on everybody, wether we want them or not. That is why I detest the dam things.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:22 pm

zerotofifty wrote: Polestar. I doubt very much that a Polestar will be useful any place near either Pole. To darn cold.

How about pole dancer?

Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:28 pm

Abscate wrote: EV sales in the US continue to grow as mid adopters realise owning a vehicle for 5% edge cases isn’t economical. Sort of like 80% of the pickups that never haul anything, or the personal cars that don’t drive from LA to SFO like Forbes thinks.

So what does one do that 5% of the time the electric car wont work for people, when a gasoline car is required?
In a very recent post you indicated the electric car wont meet the needs of suburb dwellers 20% of the time, nor rural dwellers 50% of the time. So what do they do when gas car sales are banned, and gasoline taxed highly to " incentify electric cars".

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

Hell no.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:57 pm

zerotofifty wrote:

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

Hell no.

there was a recent post on a FB group that was talking about how all of this shit began under the cash for clunkers program

That deal single handedly fucked everyone on a limited income (poor) and lower middle class than you even realize

The Cash for Clunkers program destroyed 677,081 vehicles or about 13,540 cars per state

that took a whole segment out of owning a newer car.

the plan all along is to squeeze people out of owning anything, starting with the poor first.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:32 pm

heimlich wrote: zerotofifty wrote: Polestar. I doubt very much that a Polestar will be useful any place near either Pole. To darn cold.

How about pole dancer?

The Pole Dancer is the Pole Star!!!!!

Sat Dec 14, 2024 7:35 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

Hell no.

there was a recent post on a FB group that was talking about how all of this shit began under the cash for clunkers program

That deal single handedly fucked everyone on a limited income (poor) and lower middle class than you even realize

The Cash for Clunkers program destroyed 677,081 vehicles or about 13,540 cars per state

that took a whole segment out of owning a newer car.

the plan all along is to squeeze people out of owning anything, starting with the poor first.

I saw a lot of very cool nice classic, even rare cars turned in for cash for clunkers, it was a real shame to go to the wrecker and see that the wrecker had to crush them, no sale. I saw a very nice Triumph GT6 get crushed, and a very rare Bricklin also get crushed, I offered to buy them both and was told no, aint going to happen. Dam the government. Destruction of wonderful cars at our expense. dam them to hell.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:28 pm

Another EV bus spontaneously combusts…
https://www.wral.com/news/local/chapel-hill-electric-bus-fire-november-2024/

Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:03 pm

zerotofifty wrote: kingkarmann wrote: A whole lot of word vomit for a simple issue…
If you like it and it works for you buy an EV. If not move on.

That would be my viewpoint, but the issues is tax or power rate payer subsidies of the electric cars, mandates to end gas car sales, and gasoline price increases designed to force folks out of their gasoline cars.
If only the electric car advocates would have the attitude of.. If you like a gasoline car, and it works for you, then we will leave you be. But no, the electric car advocates want to force these satanic cars on everybody, wether we want them or not. That is why I detest the dam things.

You said exactly what I was about to. Thank you.

And again.....

Quote: So what does one do that 5% of the time the electric car wont work for people, when a gasoline car is required?
In a very recent post you indicated the electric car wont meet the needs of suburb dwellers 20% of the time, nor rural dwellers 50% of the time. So what do they do when gas car sales are banned, and gasoline taxed highly to " incentify electric cars".

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

As for that.....5% of the time is being far too generous. I have lived all over this country and travel all over. I keep wondering where people that smugly say EV's are doing fine, are the future ...and work just fine.... where these people live live and what they do....because 90% of the miles I drive and when I have to drive...and keep in mind there are millions like me in the regions where I work (which is pretty much all of them)....that simply cannot use an EV in its current state of the art...with any reliability.

For many people who travel for work...and how do you think things get installed, training gets done, calibration gets done etc. etc. on all of those systems that make the crap you need and buy.....these 300-500 miles drives....which are not a thing of liesure where we can stay home ans wait out the cold or heat or waste time to drive around for hours to find a charger (much less one that works).....or plan our trips on a silly app winding around from charger to charger......we have to be there. On time.

Its not about "liking" an EV. I have no problem with EV's....except they do not work 100% of the time. I do not sell "maybe's" in my line of work. I have to be there. I sell a result.

They simply are not reliable for distances in all weather....at this point in time.

If we get back to the mindset of WHY DO WE NEED TO DRIVE AN EV....if it actually IS all about C02.....you could first start with MANDATING....hybrids.

Double or triple the range on any quantity of fossil fuel compared to a normal ICE vehicle....while cutting C02 by 31% on average.

Damn....then you could even run hybrids on CNG.....cutting.....

Carbon monoxide (CO) 70-90 percent reduction
Non-methane organic gas (NMOG) 50-70 percent reduction
Nitrogen oxides (NOx) 75-95 percent reduction
Carbon dioxide (CO2) 20-30 percent

And that is EVEN BEFORE....going hybrid.

But no....instead of suggesting a MANDATE for a fairly worked out technology that WE ALREADY HAVE (hybrids).....your best idea is to FORCE everyone to subsidize (and EV's are heavily subsidized).....what are largely coal and natural gas powered vehicles that exist at the pleasure of one of the nastiest, most polluting battery technologies in existence....that we can only mass produce at the pleasure of one of the nastiest and least human rights friendly regimes on the planet.

Hows that for some word vomit?

To you....as zerotofifty noted....its simple. Just drive what you like...right?

So...then how come you won't let us? We are not stopping you from driving EV's are we?

Ray

Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:06 pm

Anybody here have law enforcement connections? I'd be interested in knowing how many EV's have been stolen and found abandoned or stripped of the batteries. What are the challenges of breaking into a tesla and stealing it.

I think the fad of EV's is dying and I'm gonna guess sale will start dropping rapidly in the next year or two.

Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:54 pm

vwracerdave wrote: Anybody here have law enforcement connections? I'd be interested in knowing how many EV's have been stolen and found abandoned or stripped of the batteries. What are the challenges of breaking into a tesla and stealing it.

I think the fad of EV's is dying and I'm gonna guess sale will start dropping rapidly in the next year or two.

Well the police in Menlo Park (a rich city) do have a Tesla. Word is they do not like it. But hey it is virtu signaling at taxpayers expense. But heck, a lot of Teslas are at taxpayers expense.

As for stealing batteries, considering how much they weight, some times as much as a normal car, they are kind of hard to take. If one screws up in the theft, poke a hole, short a terminal one might get smoked in a lithium inferno, I guess that is justice anyway..

Sun Dec 15, 2024 5:47 am

Your trouble understanding this is simply because your use case is an edge case,

When I needed to lug $200k of scientific equipment 700 miles+ from NC to NYC , I rented a van one way for $350 within walking distance of my house.

As EVs continue to be adopted, solutions for edge case use will grow via market forces. Right now, for instance, I can rent any size vehicle I can legally drive without a CDL from multiple locations within 15 minutes of my workspace.

Sun Dec 15, 2024 7:22 am

Abscate wrote: Your trouble understanding this is simply because your use case is an edge case,

When I needed to lug $200k of scientific equipment 700 miles+ from NC to NYC , I rented a van one way for $350 within walking distance of my house.

As EVs continue to be adopted, solutions for edge case use will grow via market forces. Right now, for instance, I can rent any size vehicle I can legally drive without a CDL from multiple locations within 15 minutes of my workspace.

Just cause you live within walking distance of a normal car rental place, just cause you have $350 bucks to spend on a rental of a normal car does not mean we all can do that or want to do that. Besides, the electric car advocates want to eliminate gasoline cars, and gasoline, so renting a gasoline car wont be an option if they get their way. The advocates of electric cars are like a cult, blinded to reality, It is we all are some how edge cases that need to conform to their way of thinking. while they lug their expensive "scientific equipment" around, oh they are so much smarter than us, that is why we all " have trouble understanding".
Oh and those "market forces" they speak of as they push mandates and subsidies for their precious electric cars, market forces, hahahaha.

Sun Dec 15, 2024 7:32 am

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

Hell no.

there was a recent post on a FB group that was talking about how all of this shit began under the cash for clunkers program

That deal single handedly fucked everyone on a limited income (poor) and lower middle class than you even realize

The Cash for Clunkers program destroyed 677,081 vehicles or about 13,540 cars per state

that took a whole segment out of owning a newer car.

the plan all along is to squeeze people out of owning anything, starting with the poor first.

Cash for clunkers was a way of stimulating the market to keep the banks & auto industry from collapsing… dealers sell inventory & since most people couldn’t afford to buy the new car outright, the banks got new loans to glean the interest off of. The “white appliance” industry & HVAC industries also got this stimulus package.

Sure, cash for clunkers took a lot of “running” cars out of the market, but most of what I saw traded in & scrapped (evidenced by the purple painted engines in salvage yards) were doomed for the crusher anyway.) were clapped out mini vans, rotted out trucks, & some “rare-ish” collectible cars that would have required 5-10x their value to restore, none of this shit would have benefited the poor or lower middle class.

What I found, as a seller, is that the poor & lower middle class car buyers don’t have more than $1,500-$2,000 to buy a car outright & since most of the banks won’t loan on a vehicle over 8 years old, they would rather go to the “buy here/pay here” lot & get raked over the coals by paying $50 a week for five years on some POS that the dealer made all of their money back on the deposit, only to repo the car & sell it again & again.

That 13,540 per state sounds huge, until you consider that the larger/more densely populated states accounted for most of this, severely skewing the “average”, I’m sure that California probably accounted for at least 1/8-1/4 of that 677,000. Annually, more cars are crushed after being towed off the side of the road or abandoned due to impound fees and/or repair bills. Hell, more than 1,000,000 cars are stolen annually, and over 200,000 of them were in California.

What has really driven up the prices is the overseas buyers willing to pay more than blue book price at the auctions. Local dealers are forced to pay more than retail just to get some inventory.

Sun Dec 15, 2024 8:05 am

TDCTDI wrote: skills@eurocarsplus wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

Electric car advocates just dont give a hoot about peoples needs, they think one size fits are should be the law, and tough it if it wont work for you some of the time, or even most of the time, your are screwed over, and not only that, you will be forced to subsidize these cars for others.

Hell no.

there was a recent post on a FB group that was talking about how all of this shit began under the cash for clunkers program

That deal single handedly fucked everyone on a limited income (poor) and lower middle class than you even realize

The Cash for Clunkers program destroyed 677,081 vehicles or about 13,540 cars per state

that took a whole segment out of owning a newer car.

the plan all along is to squeeze people out of owning anything, starting with the poor first.

Cash for clunkers was a way of stimulating the market to keep the banks & auto industry from collapsing… dealers sell inventory & since most people couldn’t afford to buy the new car outright, the banks got new loans to glean the interest off of. The “white appliance” industry & HVAC industries also got this stimulus package.

Sure, cash for clunkers took a lot of “running” cars out of the market, but most of what I saw traded in & scrapped (evidenced by the purple painted engines in salvage yards) were doomed for the crusher anyway.) were clapped out mini vans, rotted out trucks, & some “rare-ish” collectible cars that would have required 5-10x their value to restore, none of this shit would have benefited the poor or lower middle class.

What I found, as a seller, is that the poor & lower middle class car buyers don’t have more than $1,500-$2,000 to buy a car outright & since most of the banks won’t loan on a vehicle over 8 years old, they would rather go to the “buy here/pay here” lot & get raked over the coals by paying $50 a week for five years on some POS that the dealer made all of their money back on the deposit, only to repo the car & sell it again & again.

That 13,540 per state sounds huge, until you consider that the larger/more densely populated states accounted for most of this, severely skewing the “average”, I’m sure that California probably accounted for at least 1/8-1/4 of that 677,000. Annually, more cars are crushed after being towed off the side of the road or abandoned due to impound fees and/or repair bills. Hell, more than 1,000,000 cars are stolen annually, and over 200,000 of them were in California.

What has really driven up the prices is the overseas buyers willing to pay more than blue book price at the auctions. Local dealers are forced to pay more than retail just to get some inventory.

The cash for clunkers, i.e. taxpayer paid for scraping of cars, required the scrapped car to be registered the prior year and be in running condition. the amount paid was 3500 to 4500 dollars. In many cases these cars would have been sold for less on the market either directly to the poor to middle class or through a dealer as a trade in. Back then before this taxpayer paid program existed, folk could buy a running car for 1000 or 2000 dollars and have transportation. but when the taxpayers forked over 3500 to 4500 dollars for these cars to crush them, that cheap car disappeared for sale to the poor or middle class. nearly 2/3rds of a million running cars crushed and we the taxpayers paid for it.

Sun Dec 15, 2024 8:50 am

zerotofifty wrote:

The cash for clunkers, i.e. taxpayer paid for scraping of cars, required the scrapped car to be registered the prior year and be in running condition. the amount paid was 3500 to 4500 dollars. In many cases these cars would have been sold for less on the market either directly to the poor to middle class or through a dealer as a trade in. Back then before this taxpayer paid program existed, folk could buy a running car for 1000 or 2000 dollars and have transportation. but when the taxpayers forked over 3500 to 4500 dollars for these cars to crush them, that cheap car disappeared for sale to the poor or middle class. nearly 2/3rds of a million running cars crushed and we the taxpayers paid for it.

And in the ‘60s/‘70s, you could buy a new VW for $1,600-$2,000, or used for $50-$100. One of my grandfathers bought a 1972 Buick Centurion convertible with a 455, new, for $5,000… cash. Inflation sucks, but a “mere” 667,000 cars, nationwide, didn’t really affect the overall number of viable cars available.

As per Wiki via the USDOT, the top trade in was a 4WD Ferd Exploder, many of which probably fell into that “clapped out or rotted” category I previously mentioned, not exactly something that the poor or lower middle class were likely to buy.

Sun Dec 15, 2024 9:02 am

TDCTDI wrote: And in the ‘60s/‘70s, you could buy a new VW for $1,600-$2,000
Here's some simple math facts:

In 1969, the average salary was $5200/year.

In 2024 the average salary is $62,000/year.

So a $2000 car in 1969 would be equal to a $24,000 car today.

A base 2024 Subaru Impreza is $23,000. and You get a car with all wheel drive, CVT and AC.

A lot more car than a 1969 Beetle.