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Thu Feb 27, 2025 5:39 pm

Correct.

Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile

That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc..

Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:12 pm

EVfun wrote: zerotofifty wrote: For the electric car to actually be green in a propulsion sense, you need green electricity, [….]
Not really, the efficiency of an electric car is so much higher than a vehicle gas engine that they can use less power even running on the US average coal fired power plant (though running on average US coal they would have higher particulate missions). The gas engine in a car struggles to achieve 20% overall efficiency, gas station to wheel. The EV can manage 80% plug to wheel. Yes, there are losses getting power to the plug, but they are also losses turning crude oil to gas and getting it to thousands of stations.

I would add, my power is less than 5% hydrocarbon based and I’m not paying for any type of “green power.”
75% hydro
9% nuclear
8% wind
3% solar

I guess I should also add I don’t currently have an EV. :twisted:

Yes, really. If the power generated for the electric car aint green, then it aint green. And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing

Even that 75% hydro power aint all that green, as a wild river was dammed to produce that power.

Electric cars have horrible refueling rates, extremely inefficient in time use.

Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:14 pm

Abscate wrote: Correct.

Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile

That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc..

Tariffs measured in kw/mile? What is that about?

Fri Feb 28, 2025 12:03 am

zerotofifty wrote: Abscate wrote: Correct.

Math is poorly received here, but the tariff on an EV is 1kW/4 miles and the tariff on an ICE at 30 MPG is 1kW/1 mile

That, and centralising the power source gives you opportunity to clean up even fossil fuel based power, as well as options like BioGas, Biochar, etc..

Tariffs measured in kw/mile? What is that about?

Its a math thing that China pays.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 5:08 am

Abscate wrote: Its a math thing that China pays.
How did you get China to pay your energy taxes?! I am all ears on this one!!

Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:12 am

zerotofifty wrote:

And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
.

Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:43 am

crofty wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
.

Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up.

The 100s of fine folks evacuting do to this Moss Landing fire are not cracking up over this.

These battery banks are needed for the green electric revolution we have been warned about. Plus they will be in your homes and cars. Fun times await.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 1:29 pm

zerotofifty wrote: crofty wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

And even so called green power aint all that green, witness the burning battery bank at Moss Landing
.

Oh, Captain Deflector you crack me up.

The 100s of fine folks evacuting do to this Moss Landing fire are not cracking up over this.

These battery banks are needed for the green electric revolution we have been warned about. Plus they will be in your homes and cars. Fun times await.

Luckily, no oil related accident has affected 100's of fine folks.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:44 pm

crofty wrote:

Luckily, no oil related accident has affected 100's of fine folks.

luckily oil was never sold as a green energy source and the risks were pretty well known.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 2:58 pm

Every form of energy has risks. A young fellow a couple years back in another branch of the company I worked for failed to appreciate the energy stored in a valve spring. When he released that energy it took his head with it...

You might think that is off topic but energy stored must be respected and handled properly whatever form it is stored in.

Fri Feb 28, 2025 3:35 pm

I learned all about energy and storage with this little toy from the 1950s:

Fri Feb 28, 2025 5:49 pm

^^^^

and other than that 3rd nipple, extra nut and a tic when you talk, there were no ill effects :lol:

Fri Feb 28, 2025 6:33 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: ^^^^

and other than that 3 nipple, extra nut and a tic when you talk, there were no ill effects :lol:

That is just bad-ass! Here is the Wiki on that thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_U-238_Atomic_Energy_Laboratory

They say it was made 1950-51 and only about 5000 made!

I had two large chemistry sets. Lots of poisonous shit in them. Made some cool stuff. It will probably be what eventually kills mea long with all of the chemicals I come in contact with at work.

Ray

Fri Feb 28, 2025 9:58 pm

Well...electric vehicles are still very bad....and their drivers range from energy whores to electron thieves and charging station groupies......but I thought an electric car themed aside that can be interesting to both EV lovers and haters....would be a video about differences in bearing choices for output differentials in both a VW EV and a Tesla EV.

Enjoy! I did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUHBki1fiMY

Ray

Sat Mar 01, 2025 2:51 am

in the uk the climate change committee (nice work if you can get it) says that to meet 'net zero' by 2050 4/5ths of cars would need to be ev and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump. :roll: they did concede that for this to have any chance of becoming a reality electricity would need to be cheaper...well that ain't gonna happen!

meanwhile the gov are wanting to expand gatwick and heathrow airports... :-k

Sat Mar 01, 2025 10:03 am

finster wrote: and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump. :roll:

well, this guy isn't happy with his:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/heat-pump-works-badly-winter-110000221.html

Sat Mar 01, 2025 10:28 am

[quote="skills@eurocarsplus"] finster wrote: and 1/2 of homes have a heat pump. :roll:
I'm in Phoenix, and also confirm that heat pumps do NOT work very well at temperatures below like 40F. The incoming temperature to the rooms will be just barely over existing room temperature yet the air - because it is moving - feels cold.

Sat Mar 01, 2025 12:18 pm

To add to the myths surrounding heating a home, if you are replacing a low efficiency furnace with a high efficiency one, buy a bigger one than you had. 80K BTUs output in a high efficiency furnace will not heat the same size home as an 80K BTU low efficiency furnace.

Ask me how I know. All I will say at this point is thank God I had the foresight to keep the wood stove for backup!

Sat Mar 01, 2025 12:54 pm

Heat pumps can work efficiently in extremely hot or cold climates, but to do so there’s bit of a “catch” — you need a relatively large “reservoir” of material/mass at a fairly constant and moderate temperature, to efficiently transfer heat energy into or out of.

This normally takes the form of a “geothermal well” for most systems I’ve seen — the heat gets transferred through water pumped in piping which runs several feet below the surface of nearby soil/dirt. The piping can run horizontally through the ground (shallower digging, but with a bigger surface “footprint”), or vertically (smaller surface “footprint”, but much deeper digging/drilling required).

Either way, it’s not particularly cheap to install one of these geothermal wells, and so tends to make a heat pump that’s efficient electrically maybe not so efficient economically — no free lunch…

Sat Mar 01, 2025 1:20 pm

baldessariclan wrote: Heat pumps can work efficiently in extremely hot or cold climates, but to do so there’s bit of a “catch” — you need a relatively large “reservoir” of material/mass at a fairly constant and moderate temperature, to efficiently transfer heat energy into or out of.

This normally takes the form of a “geothermal well” for most systems I’ve seen — the heat gets transferred through water pumped in piping which runs several feet below the surface of nearby soil/dirt. The piping can run horizontally through the ground (shallower digging, but with a bigger surface “footprint”), or vertically (smaller surface “footprint”, but much deeper digging/drilling required).

Either way, it’s not particularly cheap to install one of these geothermal wells, and so tends to make a heat pump that’s efficient electrically maybe not so efficient economically — no free lunch…

Very good points. That IS the issue with heat pumps.

Over the decades they have repeatedly gotten more compact. This means that the condenser systems have gotten smaller to fit inside the enclosure. In order to get them working properly you need a much larger transfer mass and there has to be enough temperature differential.
Older heat pumps worked better than newer ones but they were not cheap or energy efficient compared to what is out there now.

I was really surprised when I moved back to Oklahoma that it's really common in order to get your heat pump equipped system to keep up with heating when it drops into the mid to high 20s.....they are all equipped with what is called "EM heat" mode.

When the heat pump cannot keep up in colder weather, the gas furnace kicks in in EM heat mode and they both run.

Ray