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spookymulder Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:40 pm

Well I have it on my agenda to talk with Rich Kimball about having a 36 hp unlimited class added to his race calender for later in the year and was wondering about any interest in such a class? It would generally consist of ANY Volkswagen that was built with a 36hp motor so up to 60 for bugs and 59 for buses, excluding buggies since they weren't even around before 60 , you know a period car with 36 hp engine that you could build out as far as you want and all the lightening techniques for the body and pan (remember the old hole saw days). See what kind of tricks and skills people could come up with in those narrow parameters of a fixed generator stand block. Alot can be done with cranks and rods and heads and intakes, multi carb etc. That is why it would be Unlimited. I think it would be cheaper and alot of fun to see just how fast and trick some of you guys could make a 36, and I for one would like the challenge too. While I am sure there will be the typical number of people to scoff at this idea, I think in some ways it is alot like the original premise behind Formula V racing with their stock wheel sizes and 40hp motors, fun racing on the cheap. Let's hear any ideas that you can add. I personally would love to see a 36 with tunnel ram intakes on polished ported and CC'd heads with a counterbalanced crank running nitro, Yow!!!!!

RareAir Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:26 pm

Great idea. And hopefully people can chime in on some "special mods" that can be performed to pep up these little motors.

Alan Willis Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:40 pm

These motors,with a little work,actually do perform very well! the only real drawback to them is the damn crashbox tranny! I remember my dad built an okrasa engine way back in the day and he could do a moderate burnout with it! he changed the crank to a 69mm,i believe he had the heads worked on too,raised the compression,and did extensive work to the carbs,and it dyno'd out at 74hp!

bill may Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:29 pm

heads first. but the crank is weak.i use to 8 dowel 36 cranks using a mill and a flywheel as jig. the pins are smaller than 40hp on up. not much speed equipement left for these.

RareAir Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:54 pm

Got any speed secrets for my 36hp when we build it Bill? BTW, when are we gonna start on that?

Mr. Motorhead Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:29 am

"not much speed equipement left for these."

That's the best part about the whole deal here.It's the "make yer own speed equipment" part that makes it a challenge.The other thing is that there really still is a great deal of 36hp parts and engines out there to make it affordable for most who wish to try thier engine skills at making a small displacement engine perform.I would hope that any transmission (swingaxle only) could be used to take advantage of all the many gear ratios available.

bill may Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:50 am

in 65 when i bought my first beetle we had to fab almost everything our selves. like i said heads.. Gene Bergs 1st beetle was a 56 then he later got a 61.. they (EMPI and others made 36 hp header/extracters) now berg even has 36 hp oil sumps availible. the split trans is strong if you get it out of 1 st gear soon after launch. if you wind it out a few times it will grenade.. never tried modifying them just swapped them out for tunnel case 61-newer.

coad Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:06 am

I could get real interested in something like this. The whole "turn a box of toothpicks into a lumberyard" aspect really appeals to me.

Mr. Motorhead Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:38 am

The limitations of your base mill being a 36hp engine would be a good revival of old school seat-of-the-pants techniques from 40 years ago.Lets face it.Anybody can go buy a bunch of parts "off the shelf"and build what is termed a performance engine.Impose the restrictions of of building a 36hp and it forces you to be creative.

Dave Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:48 am

Fred Simpson, of Performance Technology, in Anaheim, CA, built a stroker 36'er, using a counterweighted 69mm (15-1600) crank, and God only knows what else, and had that thing turning high 13's in the 1/4 mile, in a full-weight Sedan. I don't remember the particulars, but I do remember he had it mated to a full-synchro trans, with close gears. He's also the guy that, to the best of my knowledge, hold the World's Record Bug-In engine pull time, along with Rand "Zubie" Foster, with a time of 2 minutes, 17 seconds...But someone might want to pick Fred's brain, if they are serious about this... I know he used a 36 horse case, just to show it could be done... nobody believed him, until he brought the car to...Irwindale? OCIR? Fontana? Lion's?... I forget...and them spanked their 1835, or 2016, and gave them the time slip, and showed them the cast-in generator stand... :shock: :shock: :shock:

I have also seen people use TWO of the 28 PICT carbs, made their own manifolds and linkage, and that really opened up the performance of the 36er. And Fred had some GREAT ideas, when I wanted to build a Judson-Supercharged 36'er for my Rat Rod (okay, Skim, Dracula Bug...) like relocating the studs for the intake manifolds, so, as Fred said, "I can port those heads 'til Hell won't have it" LOL

tomnotch Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:13 pm

The first 3 dune buggies my dad made back in the early -mid '60s were 36ers with crash boxes. Even had dual 28pics on the one in my 1st single seater. The 2nd buggy had a Judson on it for awhile, until sand got to it.

This sounds like a way to really spend some money. :o

53 0val Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:18 pm

I'm ready for a 25hp match race. :D

bljones Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:21 pm

y'all can take the spendy approach and attack the drivetrain... I'd rather make the purists scream.

since this is an unlimited class, while you guys are porting heads, I'll be swiss cheesing a roller. I figure there is an easy 600 lbs of unneeded metal in the body shell and pan.
shit, depending on how vague the rules are, i may just do away with the shell altogether, and bolt a four point hoop to a bare pan, add a steering column support hoop, and run naked!

Dave Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:33 pm

bl, when the "Kadron Klass first started out, the rules just said "you have to run Solex 40 EIS carbs, aka Kadrons" and, as I told Bob (53 Oval) I saw a prototype where a "mad scientist" type, took the interpretation as "it doesn't say how MANY Kadrons you have to run" and that guy had FOUR of them, one for each cylinder, on some really wild manifolds. He was just sorting out the linkage (which, according to him, was somewhat of a nightmare) when the rules guys got wind of it and said "Nope, we meant TWO kadrons, ONE on each side"
I remember aluminum floor pan inserts, lightweight tube axle front ends (like the old VW Gassers) Schwinn Stingray 20-inch bicycle wheels, doors that were doors in name only, acid-dipped bodies (lean on it, and you had a dent), all kinds of stuff..as soon as you make some rules, someone will "bend" them....
I guess it all depends on what the rules are, if, in fact, they can get a class going...Never seen a set of Erco's on a 36 horepowered car, but, ya never know 8)

spookymulder Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:46 pm

Dave, That is exactly what I had in mind, alot of creativity. Alot like Smokey Yunick in the early Nascar days. All the mad scientists come out with, like Hornbecker would say, "their creatures" and we go for braggin rights. It would be really fun to see what these Sambanistas could come up with and give us a whole lot to chortle about in this forum for sure!!!!!

horatiocaine Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:42 pm

I miss Hornbecker!!!

53 0val Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:48 pm

horatiocaine wrote: I miss Hornbecker!!!

Me too. I even felt bad when Mac Jones bought his bus. :cry:

spookymulder Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:59 pm

Me too, Horny owned the bus 'cause he loved it. It broke his heart to sell it, but he painted himself into a bad financial corner and had no choice. Mac owns it for the notoriety of it. He'll take it to the Octo Aniversary Meet park it and then go and have breakfast and party with Lenny and come back at noon to pick it up. Like what the [email protected]#$??? I remember he owned it for a month and wanted HTVW's to do a feature on it. I think he enjoys VWs but doesn't love 'em like Horny did!

55samba Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:03 pm

I bet there would be a lot of people interested in this. Hell maybe they would start to repo oversized main bearings again! I heard Ray Shubert talking about this once and I am sure there would be a lot of vintage guys interested. Who will take the intiative?

spookymulder Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:42 pm

Speaking for myself I will have an engine ready for Neato's Bugs and Buses Invade the Village show in March to help promote the idea, anyone else interested can bring their engine or car and we'll have a special section near the Promoters Booth to group the cars and engines to generate more interest.



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