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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:04 pm Post subject: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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I'm in need of some knowledgeable Vanagon owners.
My wife and I recently bought a 83 1.9L Vanagon L. We have replaced the Alternator, starter, battery, hall module, ignition and switch, new power cable from battery to starter, replaced all the ground connectors (cleaned connections from tree to body under dash, fuel pump, transmission to chassis and chassis to engine head.) I've taken out the engine bay wiring harness and have ohm out every connector and replaced the ground connectors on that. I have everything working except the injectors, they function as I have taken them all out and tested and cleaned them. the issue is that I'm not getting the ground signal required for the injectors to fire. I've done all the test and diagnostics per the Bently manual. I've gotten the engine to run by grounding the center hall connector to the engine as it will fire the injectors and fuel pump, I can then go up and get the engine to fire up and run perfectly and it will keep running until I turn off the ignition and try to restart and the injectors no longer receive the ground signal. Tried a good ECU out of a running Vanagon and changed distributor.
Sorry for crazy book but hopefully I have covered all the bases. |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9964
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:27 am Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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Open up the engine compartment wiring box, the one in the corner.
Inside there are 3 or 4 red wires attached to a threaded stud.
That is the main power junction for the engine in your year.
That stud should have power on it no matter the key position.
Keep measuring it while someone cranks the starter using the key.
The voltage should start off above 12v and not fall below 10v during cranking.
What do you see there?
Mark |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16515
Location: Brookeville, MD
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32676
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9964
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:53 am Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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The early wbx alternator wiring routing is a little different than 86+
There is no big wire on the alternator, but rather 2 smaller wires in parallel from there to the stud in the box. Then a single wire from there to the starter.
They both suffer similar issues. The strongest later version is an upgrade and what the vendors sell for all wbx years.
Mark
| djkeev wrote: |
The power for that stud takes quite the route to get there.
Battery to starter to alternator to Stud.
The wire from the alternator to starter and stud are known high frequency failure points.
Look carefully at the big wire on the alternator, they are often charred, and broken at or near the lug. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32676
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| Thank you all for the replies, I'll dig into that this weekend and have my wife crank the engine and measure the voltage. Will that cause my no ground signal to the injectors? Just asking asking as I don't know these systems yet. I do have great cranking and the engine will fire and run as soon as I ground the center hall connection to the engine block. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32676
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| While testing all the harness wiring, the ground on the ecu is pin 7. I've gone as far as cutting all the ground wiring back to clean shiny metal as most of them had the black tarnishing going in about 6 or 7 inches. I've ohm out all the ground wiring and all are good. They all have new ring connections on with the sealed heat drink on them to keep any water out. I did take the ecu out and cleaned up the outside of the box as there was some corrosion on it. |
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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Open up the engine compartment wiring box, the one in the corner.
Inside there are 3 or 4 red wires attached to a threaded stud.
That is the main power junction for the engine in your year.
That stud should have power on it no matter the key position.
Keep measuring it while someone cranks the starter using the key.
The voltage should start off above 12v and not fall below 10v during cranking.
What do you see there?
Mark |
Hi Mark so I did the test there and I get 12.59v and while cranking it drops to 10.58v |
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plummerdesign
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010
Posts: 542
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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You have done a good amount of sleuthing, parts, and refurbishing. Kudos!
There have been such moments during my years of dealing with 83.5-1985, 1.9 Vanagons.
Mark is a top-notch resource of sage Vanagon advice.
Indeed, that wire from the starter is always suspect. Good call! Do invest in a single heavy wire upgrade (GoWesty, et al). But for today...I recall that the fuel pump relays in the box above the coil can do this. If the vehicle has a Hard Start Relay kit, they too can cause this if the relays are toast.
- Jeffery : )
_________________
It is old and green and it makes me grin.
1984 Westfalia 1.9 |
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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| plummerdesign wrote: |
You have done a good amount of sleuthing, parts, and refurbishing. Kudos!
There have been such moments during my years of dealing with 83.5-1985, 1.9 Vanagons.
Mark is a top-notch resource of sage Vanagon advice.
Indeed, that wire from the starter is always suspect. Good call! Do invest in a single heavy wire upgrade (GoWesty, et al). But for today...I recall that the fuel pump relays in the box above the coil can do this. If the vehicle has a Hard Start Relay kit, they too can cause this if the relays are toast.
- Jeffery : ) |
Thank you Jeffery for the reply, I've gotten new relays installed and they are operating as they should. We seem to have an intermittent fuel injector issue. I can ground out the middle hall plug and get the injectors to spray and get the engine to start up and run but as soon as we turn off the engine we can no longer re start it and the injector signal is no longer present. We had it work the other day where we were able to restart it and it fired up and ran but now it's back to a no start unless I ground out the center wire again. |
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billgjcook1982
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| Well all the work I did and just lost the engine, big cloud of white smoke came out of the exhaust and it shut down immediately. Took all the spark plugs out and it looks to be in number 3 cylinder. Thank you all for trying to help me with this. Looks like we are looking for a new engine at the moment or rebuilding this one. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6661
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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It might just be a head gasket…
Is there oil in the coolant, or vice-versa?
Sorry to read this.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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billgjcook1982
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Joined: April 24, 2024
Posts: 7
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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| Yes checked out the oil and its a milky white. |
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9817
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:10 am Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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Sorry to hear of this happening so early in your Vanagon ownership. Ours let go only after 21 years of great service so there was an inevitably and a chance for a reset without regret.
You have options and will hear valid cases made for each: rebuilt WBX, used WXB, Subie swap, et. al.
I went with a GoWesty rebuild (1.9 becomes a 2.2) 18 years ago and have never had an issue with it. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6661
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:22 am Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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Took the words right out.
Now that you’ve gotten the worst thing possible out of the way…
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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plummerdesign
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010
Posts: 542
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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Dang!
Double dang!!
.
SNAP!!!
.
Please keep posting. We love to read about tear-down and rebuild projects. BTW - What state are you located in?
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AND A QUESTION FOR THE WHOLE SAMBA:
If it did not run to overheat, does it always require a full tear down OR can it be flushed after draining all oil/water/coffee creamer and suffice with head gaskets/head replacement?
I ask because my experience is to do a full rebuild once water gets into the case while some say it's being too persnickety.
_________________
It is old and green and it makes me grin.
1984 Westfalia 1.9 |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6661
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: 83 1.9L Vanagon L No Start Issue |
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I’d think “Yes” mostly because it sounds like it only went a full hundred feet before coolant got in. I’d do both heads.
Anyone think this could be hydrolock?
OP, any chance there was water in your gas shortly before this, meaning, flooded so much that it stalled from water? Had it happen once but pulled off before it could hydrolock, Methought...
Hole in fuel expansion tank in wheelwell, drove no more than a half-mile in a downpour, stalled from water and (later realized it had) destroyed the injectors.
Tried everything I knew, all two things ( ), then bought new rebuilts from Marco Mansi, lived happily ever after.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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