Syncro Off-Road Abilities vs. Competition

[carterzest]

I Hate sand...and F big red.....
I hate the airing down ritual.......



Go Syncros...Go HellenicVanagon 0~


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Happiness=Portland, Oregon in the rearview mirror!

[hans j]

I love driving in sand! And now Big Red is on my 'to drive' list.

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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[Jon_slider]

comparing a Syncro with front and rear lockers to a Disco, Vittara, Rav, etc, with no lockers ....
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[insyncro]

The driver of the vehicle makes the biggest difference.

Captain, pilot, driver.......all are decision makers, the vehicle just goes where it is pointed....or not.

[hellenic vanagon]

[insyncro]

Thank you

[Jon_slider]

....
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[hellenic vanagon]

[hellenic vanagon]

[hellenic vanagon]

Lets examine the 1st category vehicles, how they should behave in case of zero traction to one of the two axles:

all the power goes to the axle with the zero traction!

Why? Because this is the way it works, any open differential sends power where it is easier in order to be lazy doing nothing!

So the vehicle stops!

Now what you think will happen with a SYNCRO?
(Anyone of them, its a matter of different system philosophy!).

For ex., a rear engined T3 SYNCRO has to overcome a part with ice, under its

a)front axle:

The vehicle does not stop! It continues as if there is no ice at all!
Why? Because all the necessary power is offered by the rear wheels through gearbox!

b)rear axle:

The vehicle, again, does not stop! All the necessary power comes to the front wheels through VCT!

So the two systems, without lockers, are not equal!

The SYNCRO with VCT, is far superior, because, from its construction, there is always power where it is needed and not there where it is absolutely useless!

The VCT is not an easy to beat idea, it works as a mechanically controlled center differential, and, by no means, it must be considered as an open differential!

And one last point: the power in SYNCRO system is offered stably and continuously to the needed axle, and there are not intermittent time parts with no power at all, as f. ex., with TORSEN/QUATTRO systems, where the power goes in a crazy manner interchangeably from the one to the second axle with very bad results offroad!
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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

"Many of us won't give up our Vanagons until we or the van dies," says Carrington, predicting that the list will get smaller over the next 10 years but appreciation for Vanagons will increase. "At the end, there will just be a bunch of old crazy die-hards."
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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

From the above mentioned SYNCRO's, (T3, T4, GOLF, PASSAT, JETTA, SHARAN), the only one equipped with HEAVY DUTY VCT, is the T3 because:

1)it is included in the protection shell of the front differential and

2)it is liquid, (oil), cooled

SYNCRO T3, the front differential, the VCT, the locker.

[/b]
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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

Here you can see how much "lighter" construction has the VCT of a T4 SYNCRO (EUROVAN):

(Βut it has two middle brackets for the shaft, which T3 lacks, and this is a weak point of T3).
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The Syncro Heresy

[Jon_slider]

Interesting discussion, thanks for your thoughts

> 1)LAND ROVER, JEEP and all vehicles with the same, traditional transmission:

> rear open dif., center open dif., front open dif..

I mention the Discovery because some of them have VCT center diffs, same as a T3 Syncro

> 2)SYNCRO: (ALL PASSENGER AND COMMERCIAL VEHICLES, including T3, T4, GOLF, PASSAT, JETTA, SHARAN):

> rear open dif., center VCT, front open dif..

> We see that these two categories should be equal, since they have open differentials all around!

Im not sure why you would say that a T3 Syncro with VCT and a Land Rover with no center VCT would be equal.

> the power goes to the axle with the zero traction!

I think you mean the power goes to the wheel with zero traction, on the same axle

The reason I consider the Disco with VCT and open front and rear diff superior to a T3 Syncro with VCT and open front and rear diff is because the Disco has superior articulation.

I saw a Disco with center VCT engaged, clear an obstacle that a Syncro could not clear without locking the rear diff.

The terrain was higher on the passenger rear than on the driver rear, while at the same time the terrain was higher on the driver front, than the passenger front

The T3 Syncro just stopped, driver rear spun, passenger front spun, no forward movement.

the Disco with center VCT (which they call locking center diff), drove right across both holes, and never had a wheel leave the ground, because of the superior articulation.

The syncro puts a wheel in the air MUCH more often than a Disco. Therefore the Syncro NEEDS to lock to cross obstacles that put a wheel in the air, while the Disco wheels stay in contact with the ground and move forward without locking.

I do completely agree that a T3 Syncro with rear locker has an advantage over a VCT equipped Disco with no rear locker. And of course a Syncro with a coupled VCT (that corresponds to a coupled VCT center diff on a Disco) has an advantage over a vehicle with no center VCT.
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[hellenic vanagon]

[syncrodoka]

Jeez, why did this thread have to turn into a pissing match?
The thread is "Syncro Off-Road Abilities" not syncro vs every other 4x4 matchup.
If you like something else better then buy it. A toyota landcrusher or Heep would be my choice for a dedicated wheeler.

I have gotten stuck behind discos on trails a few times where articulation wasn't the deciding factor on making it up. On one occasion 2 different drivers attempted the trail in the same car before they moved so that I could pass and I don't have dual lockers on my truck.

[hellenic vanagon]

[T3 Pilot]

I edit this image, then print on clear vinyl and adhere them to the rear and side windows.........

So much easier than having to recall all of the technical facts and arguments.

Schooled.
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1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......

[Jon_slider]

[syncrodoka]