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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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 Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| stan_tichomirov wrote: |
Try setting idle by turning idle screws in 'till idle starts going up, then the cylinder you are adjusting starts to spit. Back out 1/2 turn and do the next cylinder. My car was very rich at idle initially with 50s.
Stan |
Better would be turn each in until you hear it miss...stop...now turn back slowly until it runs smooth with no miss. Done go to next cylinder. It helps to have a tach hooked up while doing this because you can actually see the RPM's drop and rise while listening/adjusting the AFR screws. After doing it several times you learn to know what it is your hearing from up the tailpipe and the tach can be left in toolbox.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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webebuggin
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Clinton, Wa.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: Widband results.... |
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| Hey folks... So Finally got My LM-1 hooked up.. Engine spec: 2110 Fk-7 w/1.4's, Steve Tims Stage 1's. 44 idf's w/ 36 vent, 200 air, 55 idle, 140 mains:: Mallory Unilite, timed 12/24.. at idle, It hovers around 11.7 AFR, when warmed up, same. It really doesn't change much until i mash it, then it goes 12.3-13.2, then back down to 12.0, but then drops at 3000/4th gear back to 11.7... One turn out on the mixture screws,air bleeds closed.. oil temp was @180,cooler fan came on, in drive way it was hotter than normal.. plugs are light gray all the way down the center( NGK B7ea) gapped at .040..MSD 6A. have to find program to put data log here, I got the wideband in a trade, but no disc... Any input greatly appreicated |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Widband results.... |
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| webebuggin wrote: |
| Hey folks... So Finally got My LM-1 hooked up.. Engine spec: 2110 Fk-7 w/1.4's, Steve Tims Stage 1's. 44 idf's w/ 36 vent, 200 air, 55 idle, 140 mains:: Mallory Unilite, timed 12/24.. at idle, It hovers around 11.7 AFR, when warmed up, same. It really doesn't change much until i mash it, then it goes 12.3-13.2, then back down to 12.0, but then drops at 3000/4th gear back to 11.7... One turn out on the mixture screws,air bleeds closed.. oil temp was @180,cooler fan came on, in drive way it was hotter than normal.. plugs are light gray all the way down the center( NGK B7ea) gapped at .040..MSD 6A. have to find program to put data log here, I got the wideband in a trade, but no disc... Any input greatly appreicated |
Why 24 degrees? You should have it set to 28 degrees BTDC at 3200+rpm's. Does that Mallory include vac advance? Or is it just a centrifugal only distributor?
You can download the software from the LM-2 site.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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webebuggin
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Clinton, Wa.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| It has Vac. advance,and at that setting it goes to 28... it's tee'd to both carbs. You can tell when it pulls.... Correction: PLugs are NGK B6ES,not EA, Floats are properly set.... Any idea why the wierd readings??? |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7395
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| That vac advance distributor should be set somewhere between 28-32BTDC at full advance with the vacuum hose disconnected and plugged! |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| webebuggin wrote: |
| It has Vac. advance,and at that setting it goes to 28... it's tee'd to both carbs. You can tell when it pulls.... Correction: PLugs are NGK B6ES,not EA, Floats are properly set.... Any idea why the wierd readings??? |
Part of it is as John stated earlier...
"Idles (Progression circuit) operate on intake vacuum. Decel is a high vac condition. This is one of the problems with cent only distributors, decel goes to pig rich range."
Try a smaller idle jet 52.5
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Widband results.... |
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If it's in the 11s at hot idle, you need to either
1) re-adjust your idle mixture screws
2) figure out where the extra fuel is coming from. Leaky choke pistons?
Normally if the engine is spiking way lean there is a misfire in ONE cylinder. But if it's rich there is a big problem in all 4 barrels. It won't read that rich if it's just rich in 1 cylinder, is what I mean.
A common mistake is guys setting the idle mixture screws on an engine that is not 100% warmed up. If you do this is will be way rich when hot at idle.
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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"but then drops at 3000/4th gear back to 11.7..."
This is a clue. High RPM condition combined with a barely cracked open throttle.
Are you certain your pistons are oriented correctly in your enrichment circuit?
Fuel pressure correct?
Float settings correct?
Aux vents oriented correctly?
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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he said it's 11.7 at idle, not decel.
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but he also stated...
"Hey folks... So Finally got My LM-1 hooked up.. Engine spec: 2110 Fk-7 w/1.4's, Steve Tims Stage 1's. 44 idf's w/ 36 vent, 200 air, 55 idle, 140 mains:: Mallory Unilite, timed 12/24.. at idle, It hovers around 11.7 AFR, when warmed up, same. It really doesn't change much until i mash it, then it goes 12.3-13.2, then back down to 12.0, but then drops at 3000/4th gear back to 11.7... One turn out on the mixture screws,air bleeds closed.. oil temp was @180,cooler fan came on, in drive way it was hotter than normal.. plugs are light gray all the way down the center( NGK B7ea) gapped at .040..MSD 6A. have to find program to put data log here, I got the wideband in a trade, but no disc... Any input greatly appreicated"
Reading the above it appears it may be at decel as well. I' gonna say he has a mismatch issue in induction vs engine combo. Perhaps going down on his vent size will help.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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webebuggin
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Clinton, Wa.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| the choke pistons are closed/have the spring/washer holding them closed/cover plates on sides of carb(not used) fuel pressure is 3,5: CB rotary pump under tank.. will pop tops and verify floats, but were good upon engine build...will re-adjust mixtures with engine "HOT" ..at 1 turn out now..Aux vents are correct. screws in dimples.. venturies/jetting per John @ACN:: 36 vent.. so right now it's lean? I will check the above noted items and report back, probably a vent/jet change is in order?? I was told it should be 16-18 AFR at idle/12+ at cruise correct?? it does hit 12/13 at WOT,but as soon as I back out of it it goes back to 11..around 3000 rpm...Anyone know where i can download the program for graphing the datalog off the LM-1 ?, that way i can post it here... |
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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graphing the data, or trying to read it, without knowing BOTH RPM and throttle position, give us meaningless data.
So telling us that it runs 11.7, when there is confusion if it's overrun or idle, you need to clear that up.
I'm guessing your idle jets are a lot larger than you think they are. I don't care what they are marked, what size are they? If someone took a drill bit to them, that leads to a lot of wrong assumptions.
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Widband results.... |
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| webebuggin wrote: |
| Engine spec: 2110 Fk-7 w/1.4's, Steve Tims Stage 1's. 44 idf's w/ 36 vent, 200 air, 55 idle, 140 mains:: , It hovers around 11.7 AFR, when warmed up, same. It really doesn't change much until i mash it, then it goes 12.3-13.2, then back down to 12.0, but then drops at 3000/4th gear back to 11.7... ..... Any input greatly appreicated |
That's quite normal to swing towards rich at the ends of the RPM range, especially in cases where the cam is mild for the combo (more like production car).
You can re-adjust to compensate and maybe gain a bit of top end from it.
Easy "no cash" way to richen the middle and lean the ends: reduce main emulsion tube diameter .010" |
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stan_tichomirov
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Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Does it richen up top because it runs out of air? Does it mean if it doesn't go richer it can rev higher and make more power with more lift?
Stan
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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It does not really run out of air, rather the air is too late for the party and bouncing off the closing intake valve.
ALL air goes through the carb on the way in, but that which bounces back out again gets carbed twice.
All engines do this more or less, but it varies a lot, depending on everything.
If he should leave all else the same and use a more radical cam it will sometimes react opposite; meaning it will be rich in the middle but lean top and bottom.
You CAN tune the engine to the carbs, but that's weird 
Rather lets say that how the carburetors react to the engine is just another clue you can use to see the big picture of what's going on. |
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webebuggin
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Joined: January 28, 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Clinton, Wa.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| so, first, i will verify what John said, Make sure idle jets are what they are, then check floats, the readjust mixture screws, will report back,so should i go down in air correction or idle jet???then redo the wideband??? |
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stan_tichomirov
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Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 1719
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I'm trying E85. 1835, 8.7:1 CR, 40IDFs, 30mm vents, 55 idles, 150 mains, 200 airs.
I set my MTX-L to display E85 values, as I understand I need to shoot for 8.4 AFR on WOT. I'm way lean, around 8.5 at idle, WOT is 11.5 lol, and part throttle will peg the gauge in the 14s. What amazes me is the car runs and does not ping! Is E85 really that much more forgiving? With our 91, if I fart while driving it will ping unless everything is perfect.
Stan
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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do NOT change the fuel values. Learn to tune the engine via Lambda, not A/F. Then the fuel you are using will not matter.
Lean cruise around 1.1 Lambda, and WOT around .9 .
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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stan_tichomirov
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rowanfry
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Joined: January 03, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all, what do I need to adjust/change to stop my carbs leaning out under heavy cruise?
WOT and deep in the mains is around 12.3-13.3, Light cruise around town and at say 50mph is around 13.5-13.8, but as soon as I lean into the throttle a little more ie up a slight hill or cruising at 65mph its running into 14.3-14.9.
Seems like its leaning out all the way up the load range until the mains have well and truly kicked in.
1776, dual 36 dells, 110 cam, ported heads.
52 idles
125 mains
180 airs
Thanks |
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