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VWTortuga336 Samba Member

Joined: December 01, 2013 Posts: 125
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: Porsche 914 Type IV 2.0 Engine Rebuild - Displacement Bump? |
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I'm still going through and sourcing components for my Porsche 914 2.0 engine rebuild. I was going to stick with my KS pistons and cylinders, but of course more displacement is still nagging in the back of my mind... I've read that building a 2056 using 96mm P/C with my 71mm stroke is quite common, and that was the direction I was headed. But what do I need to consider when thinking about doing a 2366, with 103mm P/C? I've read longevity may be an issue, which I'm not overly concerned with, as this will be a weekend warrior car. Plus, like many of us, I'm sadistic so I like working on my car more than I do driving it So frequent engine rebuilds doesn't scare me.
I know I will need to have my heads and case bored to fit the larger cylinders, and have read that an external oil cooler is a good idea but what else am I missing?
Here's what I've got so far:
Stock 71mm crank
Stock 2.0L 3 bolt heads with new 36/42 valves
SCAT C35 cam - .495" lift, 285 duration
Weber 44 IDFs
Thanks in advance for the advice and help _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 23091 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Porsche 914 Type IV 2.0 Engine Rebuild - Displacement Bu |
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VWTortuga336 wrote: |
I'm still going through and sourcing components for my Porsche 914 2.0 engine rebuild. I was going to stick with my KS pistons and cylinders, but of course more displacement is still nagging in the back of my mind... I've read that building a 2056 using 96mm P/C with my 71mm stroke is quite common, and that was the direction I was headed. But what do I need to consider when thinking about doing a 2366, with 103mm P/C? I've read longevity may be an issue, which I'm not overly concerned with, as this will be a weekend warrior car. Plus, like many of us, I'm sadistic so I like working on my car more than I do driving it So frequent engine rebuilds doesn't scare me.
I know I will need to have my heads and case bored to fit the larger cylinders, and have read that an external oil cooler is a good idea but what else am I missing?
Here's what I've got so far:
Stock 71mm crank
Stock 2.0L 3 bolt heads with new 36/42 valves
SCAT C35 cam - .495" lift, 285 duration
Weber 44 IDFs
Thanks in advance for the advice and help |
Frequent rebuilds ..due to issues of reliability SHOULD scare you. If you wipe out a valve or piston and damage the crank or burn up a head...three bolt 914 heads (overrated as they are in the cost per benefit scale).....in good shape could run you more than the cost of an engine if you can find them. Your next option would be replica CNC ported 914 heads on new AMC castings from HAM (better than stock 3 bolt by far)...but pricey.
Otherwise.....good uncut cranks are also getting harder to find. Just sayin....Ray |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I got the 96 mm pistons in my 914, and run the stock injection. I have an elgin can with mild cut so that it works well with the stock injection system (Elgin has a wide selection of cams for the 914 motor).
Nice upgrade in power over the stock motor _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 23091 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
I got the 96 mm pistons in my 914, and run the stock injection. I have an elgin can with mild cut so that it works well with the stock injection system (Elgin has a wide selection of cams for the 914 motor).
Nice upgrade in power over the stock motor |
Just bear in mind that with D-jet....mild or wild is not specific enough in cam grinds. Lift and duration with D-jet are important....but secondary to intake valve timing and lobe center.
Timing of the valve opening points and lobe center in the 106-108° range are critical to operation and tuning because of the MPS.
And yes....agree....a better cam and compression along with excellent tuning can make better hp and torque with the factory injection. Ray |
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manx#3094 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2011 Posts: 22 Location: N. Illinois
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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VWTortuga336, I will be following this thread with great interest because I have a similar setup and decisions to make. I have 2 1.7L motors and a 71mm crank out of a 2.0L. I was seriously considering the 96mm pistons but have been eyeing the 103's.....
Are there any disadvantages in going with the 103's? |
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VWTortuga336 Samba Member

Joined: December 01, 2013 Posts: 125
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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manx#3094 wrote: |
VWTortuga336, I will be following this thread with great interest because I have a similar setup and decisions to make. I have 2 1.7L motors and a 71mm crank out of a 2.0L. I was seriously considering the 96mm pistons but have been eyeing the 103's.....
Are there any disadvantages in going with the 103's? |
Just from reading up online, longevity seems to be the biggest concern. _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6137 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have built several 914 engine similar to what you are talking about.
2.0 pistons and cylinders 1.7 heads and 71mm crank and rods from a 2.0.
I love the enigne in my daily bug and it has the stock cam. This was my first build back in 89 and it has over 100k and runs like new. The 71mm crank really make you feel the torque wind up.
That said I built the exact same engine with a mild street cam. Major improvement, stock idle, felt stock till you got over 1500 rpms, then you felt the difference blasted off.
Nether one had stock FI, I use duel 36 dells.
As I have always said T-4 is a very forgiving engine in the lighter cars. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7819 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Do NOT toast a set of real 2 liter heads on a stupid 103 mm build. 2 liter heads support 150-160 hp with very minor work on a 2056. If you want more displacement go buy a 78 mm crank and make it 2260. Then the heads can support up to about 170 hp and even more torque.
Ditch the C35 cam and get something that works well in a type 4. Web makes good type 4 cams, so does Pauter.
One of the first things you should adress is the rods. They are too heavy and needs a lightening job, or go the easy route and buy a set of H beam rods for it. That will save bearings and give you a snappier engine.
This is a 2056 using a Web 86b/86c cam, 1,8 heads massaged, 42/36 valves. 10-1, 40 Dells and a homebuilt 4-2-1 header Pull is without belt. With belt it pulls 156 hp. and 210 Nm.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1255314.jpg
This is a 2200 split bus engine built to pull over a wide rpm range. 78 x 95 mm WBX rods, Rat 9530 cam, 1,8 heads modified to 914 specs and then a bit. 42/34 mm valves 9-1, 45 Dells, 1½" Bugpack header with 2 2" free flow mufflers.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1117010.jpg
These will run all day long for many years to come. The 103 bore type engine wohnt.
Just to help you making the right decission
T |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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-96mm pistons/cylinders
- 76-78mm crank with non porsche journals so you have a choice of aftermarket rods for it.
Maybe have DPR make one for you. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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bj Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2003 Posts: 111
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Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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be sure to price out a good header system too...otherwise...you could be just throwing out money.
read read read. the type 4 is a different animal altogether. it's also more, generally, expensive to build (properly).
good luck with the build.
BJ |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6137 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Alstrup, you are right about the rods, actually the entire T-4 rotating mass is very heavy especially the flywheel with clutch. Once I floor the car at 60 mph you can feel it wind up, once the mass gets rolling it feels like a turbo. No clue when I built this engine but it is a great high speed highway car. Wish I knew then what i know now.
A Problem with T-4's in a light car once you get it ruining, it gives you no reason to split the case.. My car has been waiting for a cam since 1989. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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Jake Raby Samba Member

Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Stay away from that cam... Its a T1 cam grind that just happens to be ground on a T4 blank, it has too much duration for it's lift and ramp rate. It continually causes problems.
Try 9:1 with a Web 86A/ 86A +2.5
This combo with stock 2.0 heads, and 44mm dual cars will net 130HP, and will tune easily. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member

Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2279 Location: No. Idaho
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Watching this thread with interest.
Have a 2.0 short block with p/c's and heads. Want to completely go through and upgrade (maybe with a new crank) defnately a cam.
Plus a 1.7 assembled. No thoughts yet on what to do with it.
Rev. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7819 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Jake Raby wrote: |
Stay away from that cam... Its a T1 cam grind that just happens to be ground on a T4 blank, it has too much duration for it's lift and ramp rate. It continually causes problems.
Try 9:1 with a Web 86A/ 86A +2.5
This combo with stock 2.0 heads, and 44mm dual cars will net 130HP, and will tune easily. |
Hello Jake. Long time no see.
Its kinda funny, because I know you have advokated this cam for quite a while. I tried it a couple of times and never really got what I expected/wanted out of it. So I abandoned it and went back to either the 9530 or the 163/86b. Now we all build engines a little diferent, but frankly, I got better overall performance with the 9530 or the 163/86b over the 9600 (86a/86a+2,5) especially the 9530 performs way better than the numbers reveal.
T |
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Jake Raby Samba Member

Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: |
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163/86B is good for sure, but I like it better for bigger engines, like a 2270.
The 9530 is a great cam too, it's very predictable. I have it in my 912E@2056cc. Often I find myself wanting a stronger mid range with that one, though. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Clatter Samba Member

Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7769 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:31 am Post subject: |
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That's some combo right there!
Love it when people build for some top end..
Were the plugs re-located?
How was that to drive on the street? _________________ Bus Motor Build
I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist! |
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Jake Raby Samba Member

Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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My peak for a pump gas 20156 combo is 177.. It had good manners, too.
It costs more to build than a 2270, though. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7819 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Clatter, it doesnt want to pull heavy loads below 2000 in 3rd & 4rth. Apart from that it is a very nice and fun engine. I had a ride in this car (actually a buggy) just three weeks ago. We had "a sunday off" I just love it when we go through the gears, eventhough it gets somewhat windy when he floors it in 4rth
For a daily driver beetle I would personally stay with the 163/86b or even the 9530, in a 2056 displacement, because they make the engine pull more where you would want it for every day driving.
WRT the 86a(86a+2) It might just be me that has´nt hit the sweet spot with it. One nice thing with the 86a is that you can get away with using sgl. hd. springs with it. On the 163/86b that will be pushing it. Oteva sgl. springs, Ti retainers and light PR´s and it works. But you should set the rev limiter to 6800.
T |
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VWTortuga336 Samba Member

Joined: December 01, 2013 Posts: 125
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for all the replies so far, very insightful stuff.
Regarding the cam, I already bought it several months ago and SCAT has a pretty strict no return policy. Am I screwed now, or can I make this cam work for my build?
On the rods, what should I replace my stock rods with? Sounds like I should lighten the flywheel also? I'm building this for street only, so I don't want to lose my bottom end. In fact, bottom end is much more important to me than top.
I'll be running this with SS 2.0 heat exchangers and a Bursch muffler. Is there something else I should consider instead? _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Jake Raby Samba Member

Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Under no circumstance would I use that cam. Sell it here in the classifieds and buy something proper. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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