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Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix Reply with quote

Got my New 1966 bug last week bought from original owner, 75k miles, new paint.

I was doing her first oil change under my stewardship getting ready for Kelly Park VW Show.

I wiped down the engne bay and decided to give the fuel lines a litle tug, just to make sure they were all tight. I figured I'd get around to safety wiring the hoses in place in a week or so when i had more time.

Low and behold, the outlet on the full pump pulled right out with very little force. the brass pipe came right out of the pump casting.

Some locktite and safety wire and i was good to go to the show. i safety wired all the engine bay fittings carb, and pump.

About ten years ago i almost lost my VW kit car to an engine fire, the same kind of fitting came loose on the fuel pump (stock 1967 engine). That time i was driving, the car stalled, and I saw flames out the engine grill!!! I luckily had a fire extingusher handy and put out the fire as the fiberglass body was starting to scorch. I had just enough fire extingusher to barely put out the fire. The fuel kept pouring out under gravity after the fire was out, until I pushed the loose pipe back into the pump. I then got a tow home.


So rule number one...........


Safety wire all the fuel fitting in the engine bay.

If you have the old stock style pumps and carb that have the pressed in pipes for the fuel hoses, make sure they have a safety wire on them.

I have heard of total losses becuase of these parts failing. I have had two fail, with one fire already.


The metal pump and carb castings when they get old they loosen up, and eventually the steel or brass pipe can fall right out. all the hose clamps in the world wont stop this failure mode. A safety wire will.

The safety wire is a two buck fix that can save your car from total destruction.

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Miklo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, a very common problem... always good to bring up this topic from time to time... just remember everyone, August 13th is coming up, which is National Fuel Line Appreciation Day. Wink

Take some time and have a really good look at all of your fuel lines and fuel components! But by golly gosh, why wait till August... check them now!

Some other "Safety Wire" threads...

Friendly Reminder about fuel lines and clamps

Fuel inlet SAFETY WIRE
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran into a similar situation not too long ago. I bought my bug from a guy and parked it for a few months due to not being able to work on it. I finally got some free time so I fired it up, and 15 seconds later it died. After checking the float bowl I realized that it was a bad fuel pump.

I ordered up a new pump, and started removing the old one. I just barely tugged on the outlet hose, and the whole pipe came out with it. Had the pump not went out I wouldn't have been aware of the problem, and most likely would have a cooked car on my hands. Now I JB weld every pressed in fitting as well as securing it with safety wire.

Some of my buddies look at me like I'm crazy when they see the weld/wire. I've tried telling them that they should do the same. All I seem to get are laughs, and accusations of being paranoid. Rolling Eyes
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Keith
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had this happen on Saturday on my '65. Was getting ready to head to the flea market and gave the engine it's pre drive once over and pulled on the fuel lines and the fitting pulled out of the fuel pump with no force. Ironically I was going to safety wire the carb and pump when I got back from the flea market. I pushed the fitting back in and peened the metal around it and now it weeps gas. I will have to pull the line out and tap it for a barbed and threaded fitting to fix it and then test it again for leaks and if all is well I will disassemble it for a rebuild. Unfortunately I don't have another '61-'65 threaded fuel pump so I had to put a double nipple pump on and remove the stock threaded fuel line and make a new line to connect the pump and fuel line together with a clamped hose. All is well now, but it definitely freaked me out.
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mybug
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Got my New 1966 bug last week bought from original owner, 75k miles, new paint.

I was doing her first oil change under my stewardship getting ready for Kelly Park VW Show.

I wiped down the engne bay and decided to give the fuel lines a litle tug, just to make sure they were all tight. I figured I'd get around to safety wiring the hoses in place in a week or so when i had more time.

Low and behold, the outlet on the full pump pulled right out with very little force. the brass pipe came right out of the pump casting.

Some locktite and safety wire and i was good to go to the show. i safety wired all the engine bay fittings carb, and pump.

About ten years ago i almost lost my VW kit car to an engine fire, the same kind of fitting came loose on the fuel pump (stock 1967 engine). That time i was driving, the car stalled, and I saw flames out the engine grill!!! I luckily had a fire extingusher handy and put out the fire as the fiberglass body was starting to scorch. I had just enough fire extingusher to barely put out the fire. The fuel kept pouring out under gravity after the fire was out, until I pushed the loose pipe back into the pump. I then got a tow home.


So rule number one...........


Safety wire all the fuel fitting in the engine bay.

If you have the old stock style pumps and carb that have the pressed in pipes for the fuel hoses, make sure they have a safety wire on them.

I have heard of total losses becuase of these parts failing. I have had two fail, with one fire already.


The metal pump and carb castings when they get old they loosen up, and eventually the steel or brass pipe can fall right out. all the hose clamps in the world wont stop this failure mode. A safety wire will.

The safety wire is a two buck fix that can save your car from total destruction.


Do you have a pictures of how you safety wired these areas...I've been wanting to do this for some time now. Thanks!
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Keith
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a pic from the gallery for the carb:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I always use fuel injection hose clamps as well and not the screw type pictured.

No pics of the fuel pump though...... Yet.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also had the fuel outlet come out of my fuel pump while driving my 1970, back in the 1970s. I smelled gas at a red light, figured it was someone else, my nose is not to keen. When I got home and stopped, I really smelled it. I opened the hood, saw all that liquid gasoline on the distributor, the fuel pump, all pooled on the engine tins.

I was too scared to hose it off because of fire chance, I just let it evaporate. Others may have known about that safety-wiring then, but I didn't - but I learned it that afternoon !!!
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MConstable
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith wrote:
Here's a pic from the gallery for the carb:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I always use fuel injection hose clamps as well and not the screw type pictured.

No pics of the fuel pump though...... Yet.


Isn't this bassackwards?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ no
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way shown in Glenn's photo is correct - and a lot neater than on mine !!!

This way serves to tighten the wire as the screw is tightened. I think the questioner figured that the fuel line would cause the screw to become loose, but will be fine.

Glenn has a large track record of being right; follow his advice (and photos).

I first did this safety add on in the mid-1970s after I drove about six miles with the fuel pump hose partially off, VW ran, I smelled gas, figured it was someone else, got home and found about a liter of gasoline all over the engine, did not catch fire. I was so scared I just let it sit a few hours to evaporate, figured if I tried to hose the gas off that I'd cause a fire.
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MConstable
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's leftey-loosey, rightey- tighty, that shit's wired wrong, look how much slack there is if it backs out before the safety wire does it's job.
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MConstable
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone should post a pic of safety wire done correctly
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's correct, you are thinking of it incorrectly. The screws aren't what comes loose, it's the brass inlet tube. The is no way the brass inlet tube can come out on the car pictured, the safety wire is holding the clap which is holding the hose, which is on the brass inlet. You cannot yank that inlet out of the carb
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MConstable
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
it's correct, you are thinking of it incorrectly. The screws aren't what comes loose, it's the brass inlet tube. The is no way the brass inlet tube can come out on the car pictured, the safety wire is holding the clap which is holding the hose, which is on the brass inlet. You cannot yank that inlet out of the carb


Well son of a bitch, thank you for the explanation, that's been bugging me since it is backwards from correctly "safety wiring".
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Fuel pumb failure, leak Reply with quote

I hope I can get the photos uploaded. Haven't gotten my bug together yet, but this is how I've done my fuel lines and carb fitting. Get a piece of 3/16" brass from the hobby shop, cut maybe a sixteenth off and solder on using a gun, not a torch. Makes a nice beaded fitting where hose with a clamp won't slide off.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MConstable wrote:
Erik G wrote:
it's correct, you are thinking of it incorrectly. The screws aren't what comes loose, it's the brass inlet tube. The is no way the brass inlet tube can come out on the car pictured, the safety wire is holding the clap which is holding the hose, which is on the brass inlet. You cannot yank that inlet out of the carb


Well son of a bitch, thank you for the explanation, that's been bugging me since it is backwards from correctly "safety wiring".



I totally knew what you were meaning as soon as I saw it
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel pumb failure, leak Reply with quote

planenut wrote:
I hope I can get the photos uploaded. Haven't gotten my bug together yet, but this is how I've done my fuel lines and carb fitting. Get a piece of 3/16" brass from the hobby shop, cut maybe a sixteenth off and solder on using a gun, not a torch. Makes a nice beaded fitting where hose with a clamp won't slide off.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Nice work, but the problem is usually not the hose sliding off, it's the brass tube working its way out of the carburetor.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject: Fuel leaks Reply with quote

If that's a problem, I ran across a VW carburetor repair service that removes that tube and replaces it with a threaded tube. I tried to find a fitting, but can't find one small enough to fit the small boss that the tube presses into. I didn't realize that's what happens, but good information to know. I'll chase down the web site for that carb service, though.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a common problem. Lots of threads on the topic. That tube popped out on my carb and all I was doing was taking the hose off. Many solutions out there but IMO the safety wire is the easiest one.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Fuel pump, fuel leaks Reply with quote

OK, I found the web site for the carb repair. It's volkzbitz.com. He taps the carb body and threads a barbed fitting in. It's real neat looking. I guess it's something to look into. I was going to do that to mine, but even an 1/8" pipe tap is too big. I don't know where he gets his fittings, but I couldn't find any that small. I had a special aircraft fitting that had a smaller than 1/8" pipe thread, but was wrong on the other end.
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