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chris_parks
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: Electric Buggy Conversion |
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So I have read about a few people who have converted VW's for electric use, and even one notable fellow who did a buggy.
Link:http://bit.ly/bXgtlv
Since I have my Manx running reasonably well and am using it as a daily driver now, I have set my mind to phase two of my evil plan to reduce my dependence on foreign oil.
My goal is to take my El Lobo...
Photolink here:http://bit.ly/aleacJ
...and turn it into an Electric Vehicle that I can use as a daily driver
My early thinking is that it would
1) Be able to drive at freeway speeds (i.e. 65 MPH)
2) Have a range of 50-60 Miles
3) Need recharging on a weekly basis
I am just wondering if anyone here has ever tried EV conversion for their buggy, and what advice they would give.
As much as I love fixing my 1600 DP and cleaning out my idle jets in my duel webbers, I am just ready to go 21st century...
Your thoughts? Ideas? Snide comments or jokes? Mean spirited insults?
Here are some examples I found...
Link
Link
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Just loving life. One buggy at a time. |
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JiI
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Joined: February 18, 2006
Posts: 1856
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Unless you charge it from solar, windmill or water turbine, you're still using fossil fuels.
Jeff |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the kits you need. Already to go onto a VW transmission.
http://www.ecosmotors.com/parts.html
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73SpeedBuggy
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Joined: July 11, 2006
Posts: 874
Location: Warminster, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| JiI wrote: |
Unless you charge it from solar, windmill or water turbine, you're still using fossil fuels.
Jeff |
This, gentlemen, is an outstanding example of what is known as 'thread-crapping'. |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20802
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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chris_parks
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2008
Posts: 204
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| JiI wrote: |
Unless you charge it from solar, windmill or water turbine, you're still using fossil fuels.
Jeff |
I actually had thought of installing solar panels on my house but didn't want to make a thread about living "off the grid". Good point though.
I only drive a total of 8 miles/day currently, so 50-60 Miles is about a week's worth for me if I throw in lunches.
My plan is to keep the Jeep for the hauls that require long distance and not for work commute/grocery getting.
Thanks Dale for the link on EV stuff. They are a good starter.
I remember seeing the buggy with the side battery pods too.
So has anyone here actually done it?
      
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Just loving life. One buggy at a time. |
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6768
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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These guys near Santa Cruz have been doing conversions for a long time. They have a lot of information materiel and hold workshops.
http://www.electroauto.com
I found a converted VW bus in a Pick n Pull a couple years ago and pulled the motor, adapter and controller. I'd like to do the same thing sometime.
| chris_parks wrote: |
My early thinking is that it would
1) Be able to drive at freeway speeds (i.e. 65 MPH)
2) Have a range of 50-60 Miles
3) Need recharging on a weekly basis
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One of the challenges of electric vehicle is getting the longest service life out of the batteries possible. The best type of EV lead acid batteries(6 volt golf cart) can last from 3 to 5 years. They're about $120 each. 12 volt batteries can go bad in 2 years. If you want to go highway speeds you'll need at least 96 volts. Bottom line is batteries are expensive(around $2,000) so you want them to last.
For maximum life, you should always try to maintain the batteries with a full charge when not in use. I don't think recharging the batteries once a week is a desirable/good/economic practice at all.
Last edited by BL3Manx on Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:10 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4941
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 73SpeedBuggy wrote: |
| JiI wrote: |
Unless you charge it from solar, windmill or water turbine, you're still using fossil fuels.
Jeff |
This, gentlemen, is an outstanding example of what is known as 'thread-crapping'. |
Not an example of 'thread-crapping'... it's a reality check-point that needs to be addressed. And this should be an adult discussion...
It's called 'displaced emissions' if the source of power is generated via coal/nuke/natural gas/etc., and then 'downloaded' into a storage battery and run in the car.
I'd prefer a 'range-extender' type hybrid system that has a small gas turbine engine turning a generator to create the power the run hub motors in the wheels. If it's combustible, the turbine could potentially burn it for fuel -
bnc
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Lithium-Ion are what are being used today, and they have more power to weight ratio, than a lead acid. And maintained properly, they will last longer than a lead acid.
Lithium Polymer is THE best for power and endurance, but they have their problems with overheating, if abused. They are just not perfected yet.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Lo Cash John
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2277
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Random thoughts from a guy who works in the DC Power/telecomm business:
1. For surface street driving an E-buggy would be great.
2. If you put the bats on the sides, you could make custom side pods to clean up the lines.
3. You could put controller under the front hood.
4. If you have the room, maybe a small gas generator mounted back near the electric motor? Sort of range extender if needed.
5. Bats should be held at "float voltage" as often as possible for max life. For lead-acid that's approx 2.20VDC per cell (6 cells per 12V battery).
6. If you need cables fabricated for this, let me know. Also I can hook you up with rectifier gear (battery chargers). We often junk old "48VDC" equipment and some of this stuff runs on 240VAC. I can show you how to charge a 96V string in halves with a 48V charger.
7. Yes it is a form of pollution displacement, however power plants in the US generally do NOT burn oil, therfore you are not directly giving money to foriegn countries.
Well, that's all I got for now.
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bedlab
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Flatulachia, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Spend some time here: http://www.evalbum.com/
You will find plenty of ACVW conversions. Lead acid flooded golf cart batteries at 6 or 8 volts are still the easiest, least expensive and most bullet proof choice.
Don't pay any attention to anyone that does not drive an ev. Electric vehicles work within their well defined limits. I have over 5000 miles on a ghia conversion that I did 3 years ago with all used and scrounged parts (but for the battery pack). I have never been stranded away from home.
I can go fast or far but not fast and far. Freeway speeds are no problem. You will not save any money but you can have a ton of fun. Don't listen to the haters about just shifting the pollution around, evs are much cleaner. |
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EVO3
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Orange Park, FL.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| EVO3 wrote: |
| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
Lithium-Ion are what are being used today, and they have more power to weight ratio, than a lead acid. And maintained properly, they will last longer than a lead acid.
Lithium Polymer is THE best for power and endurance, but they have their problems with overheating, if abused. They are just not perfected yet. |
Lithium-ions are the best answer we have for batteries at the moment. However, as a hobby shop manager we deal with those batteries on a daily basis and have seen them literally go off like a road flare during a charge cycle. Twice in our shop for no apparent reason. Luckily we have a fire extinguisher near by for those occasions. It would just make me mighty nervous knowing that the potential for a fire hazard is parked in my garage, capable of harming my family, pets and property.
Lithium battery failure..........
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bedlab
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Joined: November 26, 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Flatulachia, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Every internal combustion vehicle in the world has a tank full of highly explosive fuel in it at all times. Even when empty they can explode. That does stop me from parking two in my garage every night or driving my kids around all day. Again, unless you are really into this stuff stick with golf cart batteries and get you info from some one that has some experience. |
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Q-Dog
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Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8840
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I've been thinking a lot about converting either my buggy or convertible to electric drive. How cool would it be to drive a nearly silent topless vehicle?
On top of the quiet driving, You never have to get gas, never need oil changes, and can charge it up at any electrical outlet. Who cares where the electricity comes from? I think the experience of driving a vehicle at highway speed, where all you hear are wind and tire noise, would be a great experience.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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bedlab
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Flatulachia, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
I've been thinking a lot about converting either my buggy or convertible to electric drive. How cool would it be to drive a nearly silent topless vehicle?
On top of the quiet driving, You never have to get gas, never need oil changes, and can charge it up at any electrical outlet. Who cares where the electricity comes from? I think the experience of driving a vehicle at highway speed, where all you hear are wind and tire noise, would be a great experience. |
And your tranny and all the squeaks and rattles of a 42 year old VW.  |
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dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3110
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bedlab wrote: |
| Every internal combustion vehicle in the world has a tank full of highly explosive fuel in it at all times. Even when empty they can explode. That does stop me from parking two in my garage every night or driving my kids around all day. Again, unless you are really into this stuff stick with golf cart batteries and get you info from some one that has some experience. |
The biggest difference being a gas powered car is less likely to self destruct when sitting in the garage turned off, unattended, than an EV running lithium ions on charge.
I use li-po's for radio controlled flying and they can and will self destruct when charging.
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Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
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CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
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66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4941
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
Lithium-Ion are what are being used today, and they have more power to weight ratio, than a lead acid. And maintained properly, they will last longer than a lead acid.
Lithium Polymer is THE best for power and endurance, but they have their problems with overheating, if abused. They are just not perfected yet. |
The 'battery car devotees' are a great bunch of folks; I sell cable & connectors to them... no problem. I'm a big proponent of alternative fuel / alternative powered vehicles -
However, it's a stretch to expect Joe & Sally Lunchbucket to pay attention to any requirements for increased maintenance on a hybrid or pure electric vehicle when they BARELY maintain their dino-fueled car... this is why I see the need in the market for a continuance in the production of a ICE/electric hybrid form of on-board power. My ideal would still be to use a diesel or gas turbine-type of engine (one that will burn multiple fuels) to run a generator & provide power for the hub motors.
Or run your air-cooled VW motor on alcohol... made from cellulose stock or plant matter -
bnc
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4941
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| bedlab wrote: |
| Every internal combustion vehicle in the world has a tank full of highly explosive fuel in it at all times. Even when empty they can explode. That does stop me from parking two in my garage every night or driving my kids around all day. Again, unless you are really into this stuff stick with golf cart batteries and get you info from some one that has some experience. |
And many battery technologies emit hydrogen or other harmful & explosive gases through their chemical process, which occurs when the battery is asked to provide power or hold a charge - so what's your point about explosive/combustible 'fuels' again? 
bnc
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GTBRADLEY
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Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 578
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Hawkeye Buggy's built one a while back. There was a short thread about it over on the TexasManx Club site.
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engineerorange
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Joined: October 23, 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Catawba, NC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| bedlab wrote: |
| Every internal combustion vehicle in the world has a tank full of highly explosive fuel in it at all times. |
Diesel fuel is not explosive. You can use it to put out small fires.
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