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joseph928 Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011 Posts: 2114 Location: flagstaff az.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: Automatic Onboard Fire Extinguisher, every one needs this! |
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With all the vanagons catching fire. two in the last week that I know of.
Yes, I do know how important it is to replace fuel lines. I decided to install an automatic fire extinguishing system. I know they are over $600.00. I found these on EBay. I got these for around $150.00 with mounts. These came from a top NASCAR Team. It is a firefox FE 36 SFI SPEC 17.1. These are the new Halon substitutes. 16.5 inches long by 5.25 inches wide. They weight 15lbs 13 oz. The charge is 6lbs 2oz. and will cover over 100 sq ft. These were made 9 years ago, tested 2 years ago and most NHRA teams are using these. They are powered by nitrogen, maximum pressure 1,000, charge pressure 200. I do not know why every van in the country does not have these installed. What is you van worth? Even at retail these are a good deal and at EBay prices they are a steal! There are not alot of them out there but teams do replace them regularly. This is an "install and forget about it" system. It goes off automatically, even if you are not in the van. I bought more than one of these. I will have to see what I want to do with the extras.
This is a Mead Telescope ring 5.25 inches. I use this to mount the extinguisher in the engine compartment (from EBay: $12.00).
This is a picture of the extinguisher in the engine compartment for size comparison. I am going to mount it in the driver side rear fender well.
This is the braided cable and the nozzle installed in the engine compartment. You can just see the nozzle in the top center of the picture.
This is a picture of the extinguisher mounted in the fender well with the Mead mounts. _________________ 1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.
Last edited by joseph928 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:02 am; edited 2 times in total |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've considered a setup like this myself. The price however has been a factor in not doing it. Good to know about these good used units. _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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Phishman068 Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 1865 Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: |
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How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway? |
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NZer Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2012 Posts: 88 Location: South Western Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Phishman068 wrote: |
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway? |
Being a Halon substitute it looks to be an inert gas instead of the foam type that cover everything. _________________ A sad looking 88 Westfalia, MT 2.1 with 150k on the clock and several issues! |
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insyncro Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 15086 Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: |
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I have built and installed Fire Safe systems in race cars, but never in a van.
Good idea for sure. |
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joseph928 Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2011 Posts: 2114 Location: flagstaff az.
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Phishman068 wrote: |
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway? |
No! I don't have the wire cover on the nozzle yet in the picture. So that wont be a problem. It detected fire by heat, and no it does not get to hot to set it off on it's own. Remember they use these in nascar and NHRA. I think it takes about 180* to set it off. It does not use yellow powder, it's a halon substitute, so it wont even hurt you like halon will! It will not hurt your electronics either and nothing to clean up after you use it. I saw 4 more of these by different manufactures today , $200 to $350 on ebay today so you all have no excuse to not have one. Come on no more burnt up vans.The ones I got are still the best deal I seen yet! And the big ones cover so much room they will put anything out, even the 2 pounders will do a good job. _________________ 1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15119 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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while I know nothing is failsafe and 100% guaranteed.
wouldn't it be better to put the same attention and $costs$ into the fuel system of the van to prevent the fire in the 1st place?
sure these make sense in race cars, as they're pushed to the extremes. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Jon_slider Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007 Posts: 5091 Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:45 am Post subject: |
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thanks for sharing your idea and congrats on taking action
however, you are only protecting the engine
the most recent fire thread was an electrical fire in the dash..
if might be good to have access to that fire extinguisher without having to open the hatch and deck lid. For example, put the extinguisher itself under the back seat, so you can use some sort of quick release plumbing to your engine fire suppresion system
still, great idea to have a fire extinguisher, that works, on board _________________ My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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JeffRobenolt Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007 Posts: 1513 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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A dash fire could be put out by a regular extinguisher mounted in the van.
You would know right away with the dash, that is if you were in the van.
An engine compartment could burn pretty good before you would notice it.
Jeff _________________ --------------------------------------------------------
jfats808 wrote: |
Most, some, few is not all. You can always learn something from everyone , even the fool. |
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teej Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2010 Posts: 897 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I like how simple the installation looks. _________________ 1986+ Wolfsburg Weekender Pop-Top 2.3 WBX Manual Trans |
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an86carrera Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 293 Location: Bradenton, FL
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Phishman068 wrote: |
How does it detect fire?
Do you have to be mindful to never bump that nozzle resulting in accidental discharge?
In the case of discharge, does it cover everything with white crap ruining it anyway? |
Someone at work gave me a 10 lb ABC extinguisher for my garage the other day. He also gave me a LED monitor and a kitchen size trash can. I put the extinguisher in the trash can and laid it on the front floor of the Porsche and left for home, on the way the pin must have fallen out and on a fast acceleration from a light the extinguisher slid back into the front of the passenger seat and went off. Wow what a surprise and mess, took two hours to clean up after I got home. Would have been way worse if not in the garbage can that caught maybe half of the white/yellow crap.
So, be careful transporting the damn things too. _________________ Len
Current Vehicles
'84 Westy '95 2.2 Subaru
'08 Dodge 2500 diesel
'75 914 |
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James 93SLC Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 937 Location: NE Ohio
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
while I know nothing is failsafe and 100% guaranteed.
wouldn't it be better to put the same attention and $costs$ into the fuel system of the van to prevent the fire in the 1st place?
sure these make sense in race cars, as they're pushed to the extremes. |
You are missing the point here. This is not advocating that you neglect regular maintenance on the van. This just an extra level of cheap insurance that could keep the van from burning to the ground.
Brand new cars can catch fire too. _________________ -------------------------
91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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peaceful warrior Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 5274 Location: Taoswest, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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That is a nice simple install, it seems.
Mind if I ask you a couple of questions James?
1. You stated that it goes off at 180 degrees, automatically, so I am assuming the sensor is in the nozzle?
If that is the case, did you test for engine compartment temps on a hot day of driving, before deciding to mount where you did?
2. Any idea of cost to recharge, if, and let's hope it never happens, goes off?
3. Install and forget about system? Does that indicate that it will never lose pressure, let's say over a year? I know with standard fire extinguishers, they do lose pressure over time and needed to be recharged.
Only asking as I am curious, and these are some questions that came to mind. Thanks! _________________ "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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Cygnus Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2006 Posts: 129 Location: Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking of something along these lines as well - I found this one about a year ago - seems reasonable at $165.00 - We would have to find out what the engine bay temps are driving in stop and go 100F weather though. Apparently this one triggers at 286F.
-Brian
<snip from previous post>
No association but I have queried these guys - looks like something that could be installed in the engine bay.. He said it triggers at 286F - the 90 degree head one is like $165.00 - can't vouch for em yet but looks promising.
http://www.firefightproducts.com/ _________________ '86 Syncro Timbertech Hightop "Cygnus" |
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reluctantartist Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 1927 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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In my air-cooled when you park it gets close to that high. I haven't monitored it closely enough to know if it gets to that temperature for sure but when I have stopped after a long run on a hot day, I have seen the engine compartment temperature climb to 250 before I lost interest. Yes, I keep a thermometer in the engine compartment. _________________ 1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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wpegden Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2007 Posts: 48
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I have considered these systems and the problem I have with them is that the driver will have no indication that suppression has taken place.
So you'll be driving along in your vanagon, a fuel leak develops, catches fire, extinguisher puts it out very quickly. But you keep driving! fuel is still leaking (probably faster now) and it reignites. The extinguisher doesn't do you any good the second time around.
What they need is a loud whistle on the extinguisher head. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76706 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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You know, if you maintain your vehicle it should not leak fuel and burn.
Don't assume since you don't smell gas your 30 year old fuel lines are OK.
CHANGE THEM, ALL OF THEM, every 5-6 years. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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peaceful warrior Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 5274 Location: Taoswest, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
You know, if you maintain your vehicle it should not leak fuel and burn.
Don't assume since you don't smell gas your 30 year old fuel lines are OK.
CHANGE THEM, ALL OF THEM, every 5-6 years. |
Noted point Glenn, and well taken I think by most. Overkill never hurts for protection of our Precious!
Since I do just that, but I am not opposed to a good suppressant system. I have only experience one VW fire in my lifetime and I got it out quickly, thankfully. _________________ "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian |
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dubbified Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010 Posts: 1406 Location: Redmond, WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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With as much as we spend on these gems, and the fact we sleep in these.. I'm with fire suppression. Cheaper than the alternative.
Here are some resources I found online, Anyone know if we have a dedicated thread on this, offering best approaches to fighting fires, best hardware, vendors, and prices?
Found a interesting site RV fire suppression specific..
http://www.rvcruzer.com/firetypes.php
Anyone using heat activated nozzles on portable cylinders?
Any home brewed systems using Inert gas?
Seeing some of the cable activated systems, what is keeping someone from getting a cable, and bottle mounted in bay, and simply using nozzles and steel tubing? Course, I think the heat activated nozzles are the best option..
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Q4GL5FRwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
I am a proponent of the clean agent gas systems vs the AFF systems, I'd prefer something a little easier to cleanup based on the reviews once these systems go off, picture as reference.. But, I'm with real world experience, which ones work best? I've never had to fight a engine fire, cleanup means nothing compared to controlling the fire.
I like the remote mounting idea if possible, but would also entertain one of these..
http://www.rvcoolingunit.net/servlet/the-Halon-Fire-Fight1-Extinguishers*****/Categories
Another resource page, http://www.firefightproducts.com/Fire_Fight_Supplemental_Hal.html
I would love to see more about what Van owners have done specifically listing pictures, and LINKS on the net for the hardware they purchased.
I think my cross country trip requires a fire suppression system before I leave in the next week. Jeez. |
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Homercules Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2010 Posts: 141 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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wpegden wrote: |
I have considered these systems and the problem I have with them is that the driver will have no indication that suppression has taken place.
So you'll be driving along in your vanagon, a fuel leak develops, catches fire, extinguisher puts it out very quickly. But you keep driving! fuel is still leaking (probably faster now) and it reignites. The extinguisher doesn't do you any good the second time around.
What they need is a loud whistle on the extinguisher head. |
I don't think that would be a problem. The extinguisher would be very loud as it would completely deplete in one shot, one very loud shot. Besides I would prefer a leak than a leak that is on fire!
I also saw an option for a siren. _________________ 89 Syncro |
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