'85 Automatic Shift Points

[danfromsyr]

YOU adjusted the THROTTLE PLATE.. but NOT the position of the transmission relay shaft (manual valve) the relay lever can be fore/aft and of course still allow full throttle plate action. in fact the trans will not kick down untill the throttleplate is at WOT (stops moving) and then the pedal MUST have the additional movement to pull the throttle rod compressing the spring on the rod at the throttle plate.
it sounds like you are only seeing one point of action & adjustment in the throttle linkages. when there are 2 actions.. throttle & transmission manual valve (kickdown) but this also effects the when/how firm the trans shifts..
it does this to allow a soft upshift on light throttle and a firmer upshift under heavy throttle at slow speeds..

also your request and inquiry to anyone with a 1.9 AT for hard facts is tough to get this time of the year at least 50% of vans are tucked away for the winter..
add that very very few 1.9 ATs were equipped with a tach (only 84/85 Wolfsburghs came with a tach) that lessens your target audience of helpful souls.

[?Waldo?]

[danfromsyr]

yes, this is accomplished by loosening the cable adjustment at the pedal,
adjusting the throttle rod at the spring at the throttle body then taking the slack out at the throttle pedal. this will move the manual valve (relay lever) at the AT fore/aft some, this will effect the firm/soft of the shift points.. too soft and it will linger on shifts.. too firm and it will jump into the next gear sooner.. so there is a little dialing in to your preference in driveability.

[?Waldo?]

[danfromsyr]

it doesn't take much variation in position of the lever
think about it.
there is adjustment at both ends of the throttle assembly.. with a fixed point on the lever in the middle.

but anyways.. what is your problem that asked the original question? that it gets into gear too soon..
there are only 2 points of input to the transmission that is only impacted either by the governor or the manual valve (relay lever).
_________________

[?Waldo?]

Ok, then that's a non-starter. The range of motion of the pedal/throttle/kickdown is all perfect. I get full range of throttle and kickdown works correctly.

When holding the pedal right before kickdown, the 1-2 upshift occurs at 2,900 rpms. That seems irritatingly early for full throttle. I'd prefer the 1-2 full throttle upshift closer to 4,000 rpms so 2nd gear starts with a bit more power. Yes, I know I can use the kickdown range to keep it from upshifting until higher rpms, or use the shifter to hold it in 1 longer but that's an irritating way to drive an automatic.

My two questions in this thread have been:
1. Is a full throttle (no kickdown) 1-2 upshift at 2,900 correct or is it early and indicative of a fault (e.g. line pressure, governor, valve body)?
2. Is there a way to adjust the shift points? How?

[danfromsyr]

yeah I'm tapping out here too..

I'm certain there's more 1.9AT knowledgeable folk around here than us 2.
_________________

[vwfreek61]

[?Waldo?]

Indeed. I do not trust the speedo or the calcs. I do not actually have GPS but have been planning on hitting up a friend in order to confirm the accuracy of the speedo and to check how the shift points fall with regard to the spec.

[Wildthings]

[djkeev]

Automatik Getriebe fur Volkswagen und Audi

September 1974
400/280.815.00

An exhaustive description of the 010 transmission

edit:

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_8.PDF

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[?Waldo?]

djkeev, thanks for the link. I enjoyed looking through it, but I do not read German.

Wildthings, no adjustment of the throttle linkage (from where it is now) can possibly make any significant rise in the pre-kickdown full pedal upshift rpms. If you reread the discussion that I had with danfromsyr, you can see that clearly. The only thing that it can achieve at this point is to reduce the throttle opening and consequently power at that pedal position.

I will call it good for now. The van drives quite well overall and it is a minor detail. I will confirm speedo accuracy when I can and compare shift speeds to the Bentley. If I run out of other things to do (ha ha ha) I might shave some weight off the governor to raise the shift points.

[Wildthings]

[?Waldo?]

It seems like I'm talking to a wall. I DO have the additional rod traven into the kickdown range.

As I have stated repeatedly, the throttle linkage rod is adjusted TO PERFECTION. I get full range of throttle from idle to full throttle stops before hitting the kickdown range. The kickdown range is then correctly accessible by pressing the pedal further. When accessing the kickdown range, the spring at the end of the rod compresses as it should (while the throttle is still fully open) and allows the kickdown. Kickdown functions properly with the correct downshift of the trans when accessed. Adjusting the linkage rod at this point is a NON-STARTER. It can only result in either losing the idle position of the throttle if adjusted one way, or losing full throttle pre-kickdown if adjusted the other.

BTW, your two quotes are backwards regarding who said what.

Yes, I now understand that at this point if I want to raise the full pedal pre-kickdown upshift rpm, I will need to adjust governor (or maybe valve body, but governor would be easier).

What I still do not know definitively... is what I have asked over, and over, and over since post 1... Is the (irritatingly early) full throttle pre-kickdown 2,900 rpm 1-2 upshift correct stock behavior or does it indicate an internal issue in the trans (e.g. line pressure, governor, valve body)?

[Wildthings]

Adjust the rod and you can have your tranny shifting up at 4000 rpms if you want or keep claiming you have the rod adjusted to perfection and live with it shifting at 2900.

I'm done here.

[?Waldo?]

Unbelievable. I HAVE adjusted the rod both ways. I either LOSE idle or LOSE full throttle pre-kickdown. Adjusting the rod either way does *NOT* affect the pre-kickdown upshift rpm AT ALL.

[OddN]

[?Waldo?]

Aside from the fact that I have tried all of the recommended adjustments without even one iota of effect on the shift point at 'full throttle pre-kickdown"...

Consider the fact that there is only one lever on the trans and that lever encompasses the range of throttle and pedal motion from idle to full throttle and into kickdown itself. Also consider the fact that the 'full throttle pre-kickdown' position is a singular position of that one lever on the trans, where it is resting against the kickdown, but not pushing into the kickdown range - that singular position of that lever is determined by the transmission itself and not the throttle or pedal. Consider further the fact that all adjustments to the accelerator pedal/cable or throttle linkage rod will still find that lever in the exact same position for 'full throttle pre-kickdown', because that position is a function of the transmission itself and not a function of the throttle or the pedal.

Considering all of those FACTS, how can adjusting the linkage rod (external to trans) or accelerator cable (external to trans) ever result in any change to the shift rpm (internal to trans) when for any possible adjustment, the trans lever MUST always be in the same position when it is 'full throttle pre-kickdown' and that trans lever position is the only input to the trans that determines shift point rpm?

[oceanair]

Man oh man -- this is a voluntary site and those taking time to help you are doing so out of their busy day. So, despite the fact that you come a cross rude and frustrated at those who are taking time and effort to help YOU, I have also taken time to help you.

I warmed up the 1984, 1.9 Auto today where it is normally garaged for the winter. I do not have a tach, so don't tell me you are talking to the wall, I am trying to help you, but I did get some MPH results.

Pedal to the floor, but no kick down, shift at 20MPH right where the little red dot on the speedo is. Second shift at 41MPH, right where the two red dots on the speedo are.

Sorry if that MPH reading drives you mad, but it's as good as anyone here is willing to do for you it seems. I ride on 215/65/R16s. You can do the math.

Perhaps try another tactic -- thanks and respect for other's efforts to help you.
_________________
84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!

[?Waldo?]

The information of a 20MPH 1-2 shift along with your tire size is very useful. It is the closest anyone has come to answering the actual question I've been asking and as such is much appreciated. Thank you very much for that.