Time for a rebuild (?) How to proceed?

[Cavilry6]

Howdy all!

My 1968 Westy Tin-Top has been largely trouble-free for the last 9 years during which it's traveled about 5-7k miles (estimated since I can never get the speedo/odometer working for more than about a dozen miles before it breaks the cable again). That said, the increasingly illuminated low oil pressure light seems to be telling me it's time for some major service. I've done just about everything you can do to an engine on various vehicles (carbs, exhaust, valves, various belted accessories, etc.), but I've never cracked into an engine itself. Sooooo, before embarking on this, a few questions I'm hoping to answer.

1. Is my thinking accurate that it's time for a rebuild? I don't notice any issues other than the oil pressure and maybe a bit of power loss on the top end (but that could just be my mind playing tricks on me)

2. If it's time for a rebuild, any high-level thoughts on doing it myself versus paying someone to do it? Locally we have the Old Volks Home as well as Vivid Vans (vanagon place primarily, but the guy does know his old air cooled engines as well I hear). We don't have a lot of money to throw at it, though we also don't have a ton of time to throw at it (3 and 5 year old at home)

3. What all should I look to replace? I really don't know where to begin here

4. While I'm in there, should I consider any upgrades for either reliability or "performance." I wouldn't mind a bit better cruising speed though the bus really is just for short(ish) trips for the most part.

5. Is a whole new engine worth considering?

Thanks as always!
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1968 Westy Tin-Top

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[jtauxe]

[94touring]

Regarding that speedo cable. I got tired of mine acting up, even after replacing it, bouncing around so went to a gps speedo.

Assume you have a stock 1600?

[Cavilry6]

[kreemoweet]

Get a pressure gauge, to get some actual pressure data.
Oil pressure switches, and especially aftermarket ones, are not reliable enuff to base a rebuild-or-no decision on. Check out the oil pump, which can be done w/o removing engine entirely. Check out the pickup inside the case (loose?, etc). See if there's an (necessarily non-stock) oil filter in your "stock" engine, and if so make sure it's all OK. Make sure the oil pressure relief/control plungers are not stuck open.
Get a copy of Wilson's "How to Rebuild a VW Engine" whether you intend to do it yourself or not. If you go self-rebuild, acquire all of the necessary parts beforehand. And by "necessary" I mean any part that MIGHT be needed as you go through the existing engine inspecting and measuring. All of them are consumables, for which you should have spares on hand.

"Upgrades", "Performance", "Reliability", and "Inexpensive" all live in different cities.
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[KTPhil]

Does the light get brighter when you press the clutch pedal?
Is there detectable endplay at the crank pulley?
Is the measured compression pressure below 100 on any cylinder, or more than 5 psi different among them?
Any YES answers means it's time to rebuild now before more serious things break.

Have you pulled the motor before? It's not that hard with the Muir or other books. A Harbor Freight ATV/moto jack makes it less back-breaking, but a floor jack and a good buddy can work well, too.

If you are not equipped with a machine shop, I'd remove the motor, strip it to the long block (leave the heads on), and pay to have it rebuilt properly to the same assembly level. Then bolt on all the accessories and reinstall.

This is a good compromise of quality, cost, and skill/tool levels for most people. It's also a great learning experience for any future breakdowns, with little risk of grenading the engine from rookie mistakes.

[timvw7476]

comes down to #2.
If the pressure is low, the rod bearings / main bearing clearances have finally opened up enough to merit a crank grinding. Meaning even if you do most of it yourself, a machinist removes material from that piece, restoring proper clearances, or the crankshaft is junk, i.e. already undersized & scrap. (you will know when it is disassembled).
You can do most of that work yourself in single-car garage space.
But you still need a machine shop / machinist opinion on the one bad/tired/scrap part. Or just buy a new crankcase & crankshaft to remove the crank questions. That alone costs $1,400. -ish. Already 1/3rd of the way to an All-New Type I engine.

[Cavilry6]

Thanks everyone. This is a dumb question, but how do I test oil pressure? I've done compression checks many a time, but never oil pressure. I tried to do some googling and Samba searching but couldn't really come up with a clear explanation of how/where to attach an oil pressure gauge.

Regardless, I just ordered "How to Rebuild a VW Engine" to have on hand. I have not pulled the engine before, but I do have a motorcycle jack which should help things.

So, if the machine work is needed and I'm at $1,400 plus it looks like about $1,000+ in parts (that's still an open question I have) then is it wise to consider something like a complete long block from someone like EMPI? https://www.jbugs.com/product/empi-98-0480-B-1600cc-vw-longblock-engine.html This might require selling my first born, but we have two so it should be okay

Or, from a quick search something like this? https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/pts/d/san-francisco-vw-1600-dual-port-long/7719633677.html
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1968 Westy Tin-Top

[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-32802.png]Click to view image[/URL]

[airschooled]

If your engine is running reliably with low oil pressure, I bet you have an older but good quality rebuild. The parts and complete engines available today aren't anywhere near that quality, so I would consider an engine exchange a worse option than rebuilding yours.

OVH has never done me wrong, but I haven't had them rebuild an engine either.

Rebuilding a stock engine isn't rocket science. Those with project management skills, attention to detail, and dedication to cleanliness do just fine. It's not about being a master mechanic. Just follow the steps, and ask questions here to avoid pitfalls.

Your parts budget sounds a bit dreamy, but if you have good local machinists and lots of free time, you could be close.

Robbie
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[richparker]

There are lots of good quality engine parts out there. You’re just not gonna find the. At Jbugs, Bus Depot or CIP1.

Find a builder, tell them what you are interested in and listen to their advice.
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[Abscate]

Plan B

Hit the swap meets and pick up a decent used motor as a bridge, pull yours, and rebuild it in leisure time. I’ve sold three of these to people I like for $500. Probably recoverable in full At end but you should have a spare engine, anyhow.

Add about $500 to your budget to get your distributor ( bill) and fuel pump/ carb ( tim) reworked during this process. Work extra tricks on weekends to get that budget in the bank
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[KTPhil]

[94touring]

I'd probably do a 74 crank and a mild cam while it's apart. If you wanted to spend a little money on performance you could open the block up for larger barrels, or do slip in 88s on your block and a new set of heads to match.

[KTPhil]

Asking for trouble here... but what shape is your tranny in? A nice strong new motor may reveal tranny faults.

And check your side retainers... for about 6 months VW made an IRS Bus tranny to a design they abandoned (and most tranny rebuilders won't touch), and you will have to buy a new tranny case if/when you choose to refurbish it.

Just something to mull over as you consider investing in your little jewel. I thought I was in the clear on my '69, but some genius in its history fitted an early '68 in it, and I had to fork over another $1K or so for a replacement used case as part of the overhaul.

[Cavilry6]

Good question on the transmission. Aside from a bit of play in the bushing, the transmission seems to be in good shape. Though as you say, once the motor is no longer the issue who knows that the new weak link might be! I'll try to get under there later today to check for the acorn nuts, good call out!
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1968 Westy Tin-Top

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[raygreenwood]

To the issue of breaking speedometer cables....WHERE...at what point... on the cable is it breaking?

A long time ago I had issues with this on type 4 and type 3 cars that I drove daily. I fixed that issue.

If its somewhere inside of the cable sheath, you almost always have a bend that is too short some inches before where the break happens. If its near the end that connects to the wheel, ist usually a misalignment or the cable is too short and pulled tight at an angle or the rubber friction and alignment bushing that usually plugs into the wheel casting is trashed or missing.

If it varies and breaks in seemingly a different place every time, its usually a problem of a cable sheath that has been stretched and kinked a few times. This will not always be obvious in the outer rubber or plastic sheath. To add to that, if the cable sheath sat for ages with no lube or has cracks in it where water gets in....and has rust inside even if it has grease in there too...the rough rusty spots will wear out the cable and cause breaks.

If its in pretty good shape....go on to the next part.

You should NOT be using grease in the cable. Short of maybe an NLGI 00 grease which is semi-fluid and will quickly shear thin to provide lubrication even in the coldest weather...most normal grease simply gets pushed out of the way on a basic cool day. Most normal bearing greases have far too high of a drop point to properly flow. Your cable should NOT be getting up into the 300* range which is where crappier bearing greases just begin to flow.

Oils are difficult for speedo cables. If they are thin enough to freely flow in cold weather....they are too thick and leak out the bottom end. If they are too thick....they have the same issues as grease in cold weather. No flow.

The best lubricant for speedo cables and trunk/heater cables I have found is automatic transmission fluid. It stays liquid at almost any temperature you are gouing toencounter, has high anti-rust properties and has friction modifiers for very low friction. Even though its fairly thin, just a thin coating inside is all it takes.

Take the cable out of the car.

You need two old ketchup or mustard bottles. If your cable is gritty feeling when you twist it, it has rust and crap in it.

Fill the first bottle with something like WD-40 or PB blaster. Trim the tip so the wheel end of the cable fits tight, squeeze the bottle and pump the solvent through the whole cable.
Then take a battery powered drill and chuck either end into it and spin the cable rapidly. Put the bottle back onto the same end and flush it out onto a rag or paper towel. You will be surprised at the gunk that comes out.

Take the cable out to the yard away from the house or anything you care about. Swing it around over your head so it ejects all of the extra oil and crap out of one end. Wipe it off.

Next, take another old ketchup or mustard squeeze bottle and trim the tip so that the whole wheel end of the cable fits tightly in the tip. Put a paper towel over the speedo end, hold the cable vertical and squeeze the bottle until red ATF fluid comes out the other end.
Run this on the drill and repeat. The first dose gets all of the cleaning fluid out. The second dose lubricates it.

Let it hangvertically for a couple of hours with a paper towel under the end to get rid of excess ATF.

Wipe it up and install it. You will not be breaking cables anymore and will likely not have to lubricate it agan in your lifetime. Ray

[Cavilry6]

[OB Bus]

We broke three or four speedometer cables in our bus over about 10 years. None of the various “fixes“ solve the problem. I had this speedometer overhauled about six years ago and no more cable breaks. That speedometer was full of old dry cracked grease.
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Larry in OB
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[aeromech]

I have had a few jobs done by these guys. Send it to them

http://www.foreignspeedoinc.com/
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[timvw7476]