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Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:47 pm

Looking at all the great 36hp developement and experimenting going on in Europe, how can we get some of you folks to bring your VW's to the salt at Bonneville or the asphalt of Maxton. Or better yet, does Bitburg have the capability of running a standing mile with a mile shut down? I understand Big Thunder in England does but have been unable to get a response from them.

We would like to have you guys(and gals) be able to compete in the National(International?) 36HP Land Speed Challenge without having to ship west(although it would be neat to have you visit).

Would like to hear of any 1 mile paved venues on the continent where land speed racing could take place. If one is availble, please let me know who and where to contact.

Burly

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:14 am

Hallo Alles,
Drag Day will be coming up in March 2008.

I ran "Bettie" my 1953 356 coupe ; two piece case engine at Irwindale....best time 10.138 seconds, 61mph.
Dee Berg was the only other one with a "Two Piece" case engine that I know about. I don't know her time.
I am hoping I will see more Vintage Speed action in March 2008.
Mit Freudlichen Greussen,
Al

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:37 am

sweeet. i just read this thread start to finish non stop.
i enjoy making Hp with old 40 horse motors, formula V style.
i have a clean 59 36hp bug motor in my panel now, and have been contemplating some of the mods you guys have done here. i had no idea people would go as far as most of you did. nice work gang.

i have aquestion for anyone who reads this, and or is involved here.
i dont want to go all crazy as some of you did, i just want 40-45 hp out of my 36er.
what would be the easiest way in all of your opinion.
my ideas were:
pull it down for rebuild of course.
clean all the ports out, just baby porting, kinda polish most of it.
flycut and get some compression in it.
find a suitable cam.. suggestions?
run a header and muffler.
maybe a bigger carb, say a 30 pict1 instead of a 28.
a sump, if anyone knows of a 36 hp sump.

im sure that would help it to get goin better. i dont care if it runs a bit warm, i do all my work, so if it breaks, ill fix it. if i must ill mix fuels. not a problem. as long as i could go to AZ and LA for weekends id be happy. :) man this thread has me fired up. :shock:

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:50 am

mightymouse wrote: a sump, if anyone knows of a 36 hp sump. :shock:

I think I saw where Gene Berg is making one now.

I was planning on making an adapter but if there is one available I'll buy it.

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:27 am

Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:10 pm

Thanx for the Christmas greetings. I also hope everyone has a great 36HP New Year.

Burly

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:34 pm

Merry Christmas and a Fast New Year

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:09 am

my engine is now running, vidoe is online on my page:

http://www.oval56.com/inhalt_ov57_23.html

go down to 29.12.2007 click on the picture on the left :-)

and now a happy new year to all vintage speed freaks :-))

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:01 am

i`ll be getting my oval in 9 months when i finally leave japan for hawaii. it`ll probably have the stock motor. while i`m saving up for the type4 swap and paying the loan off i wanna try to pep up the stock engine without splitting the case or taking apart the long block. i saw ratio rockers wont work from this thread. i`ll probably get the 4tip WOB mufler i:ve seen recently. will the petronics ignition fit in the stock dizzy? the lightened flywheel that will get put on when i switch it to 12v (porsche gen) will help acceleration, thats if i can get a lightened flywheel. i will still have to change the starter and flywheel when i go to 12v right?. the oil sump and external filter will help with reliability, if i can get one that fits the 36hp case. can i use a `doghouse` 36hp fanshroud to stop #3 cyl. from running hotter?a 30pic carb should fit, but i f i can get duals for a good price it`ll be nice. the bigger carb or even dual carbs with a freeer flowing exhaust will help it some, enough to make me happy till i save up for the type4 engine n tranny swap. i figure anytime you can get the engine to breath better and keep the oil clean n cooler for longer is a good thing. the blue coil, bigger carb(s), petronix points, 4tip exhaust, lightened flywheel, doghouse fanshroud, external filter, oil sump should get me to around 45hp and run better n more reliable. thanks for all the great info and resources.

Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:00 am

kingodirtp3 wrote: i`ll be getting my oval in 9 months when i finally leave japan for hawaii. it`ll probably have the stock motor. while i`m saving up for the type4 swap and paying the loan off i wanna try to pep up the stock engine without splitting the case or taking apart the long block. i saw ratio rockers wont work from this thread. i`ll probably get the 4tip WOB mufler i:ve seen recently. will the petronics ignition fit in the stock dizzy? the lightened flywheel that will get put on when i switch it to 12v (porsche gen) will help acceleration, thats if i can get a lightened flywheel. i will still have to change the starter and flywheel when i go to 12v right?. the oil sump and external filter will help with reliability, if i can get one that fits the 36hp case. can i use a `doghouse` 36hp fanshroud to stop #3 cyl. from running hotter?a 30pic carb should fit, but i f i can get duals for a good price it`ll be nice. the bigger carb or even dual carbs with a freeer flowing exhaust will help it some, enough to make me happy till i save up for the type4 engine n tranny swap. i figure anytime you can get the engine to breath better and keep the oil clean n cooler for longer is a good thing. the blue coil, bigger carb(s), petronix points, 4tip exhaust, lightened flywheel, doghouse fanshroud, external filter, oil sump should get me to around 45hp and run better n more reliable. thanks for all the great info and resources.

Personally if it is an original stock 36hp engine even more so if it is original to the car I would preserve it. Just drive and enjoy until you are able to put the new motor in, once it is in properly store the original 36hp for a later day. You are really not going to notice much difference in just external upgrades to the 36hp, not enough in my opinion to go to all the trouble.

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:42 am

Glad to see you got your 36hp engine done + running. I'm happy to have inspired you to make the single port head mods, it looks like a good job. Our engines are quite similar, mine is a bit smaller (74x77) and probably milder on the cam. I think if more people knew how much potential there is in the modified 36hp single port heads compared to the Okrasa there would be more heads done. I'm pleasantly surprised at the performance of my "Brukrasa" single port heads at the Maxton standing mile LSR meet in Oct 07 at 91.6mph in full street trim.

There appears to be more alum thickness in the 36hp heads than in the later type 1 heads. Just think of the potential of some creative welding to make dual ports + to make a Denzel-style combustion chamber.

Keep adding to the excellent Oval56 web site and here is wishing all vintage speed folks happy New Year.

bvilletom (Brukrasa)

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:18 am

Here's a John Moxon question. Has anyone ever built a twin Judson blown 36hp VW sedan? I have never seen a reference to any. It is wintertime here and a good time to work out ideas to create new motors to chase speed records. If a person was to attack the all time blown (Pepco) VW sedan record of 101.2mph set at Bonneville in 1961. Now with the new 36hp Landspeed Challenge rules which state you must have a period-correct style supercharger, which requires a Judson, Pepco, Shorrock, or Mag blower.
Would a dual Judson blown VW sedan be able to make more hp than say the same size motor in a full race Okrasa mode? It concerns me whether the Judsons are capable of moving more air than a free-breathing Okrasa. If one Judson is only feeding 1/2 of the VW engine, is the airpath so restrictive through the carb, Judson, and intake tract, as to be less volume than one bank of an Okrasa dual port with a Solex 40P11-4 dual throat carb?
Pepco blowers are better blowers but I only have Judsons.

This would be an interesting, challenging build-up but could it be successful?

bvilletom

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:42 am

bvilletom wrote: Here's a John Moxon question. Has anyone ever built a twin Judson blown 36hp VW sedan? I have never seen a reference to any. It is wintertime here and a good time to work out ideas to create new motors to chase speed records. If a person was to attack the all time blown (Pepco) VW sedan record of 101.2mph set at Bonneville in 1961. Now with the new 36hp Landspeed Challenge rules which state you must have a period-correct style supercharger, which requires a Judson, Pepco, Shorrock, or Mag blower.
Would a dual Judson blown VW sedan be able to make more hp than say the same size motor in a full race Okrasa mode? It concerns me whether the Judsons are capable of moving more air than a free-breathing Okrasa. If one Judson is only feeding 1/2 of the VW engine, is the airpath so restrictive through the carb, Judson, and intake tract, as to be less volume than one bank of an Okrasa dual port with a Solex 40P11-4 dual throat carb?
Pepco blowers are better blowers but I only have Judsons.

This would be an interesting, challenging build-up but could it be successful?

bvilletom

Yes it has been done back in the early '60s.

I don't have any names or specific details about it but I have a register member from Denver with over 45 years commercial aircooled experience who remembers a guy racing a KG with twin Judsons.

Twin swan-necked manifolds could be fabricated to allow each blower to line-up with the crank pulley. You would probably need to under-drive the units to bring down the boost psi to a useable level and a way of supplying them with enough fuel to prevent starvation.

It's a good project but a lot of problems. Ask Dave Mayes he's still working on his twin Pepco project.

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:10 pm

Some very cool stuff going on here, with the emphasis on the engine mods. I was wondering what other things are done, ie suspension mods, tyres etc. for these 'high speed' runs...

Also, there seems a sreious lack of photos of VW bugs out on the salt flats - anyone care to share?

Thanks!

------------------------------
http://okrasa.pre67vw.co.uk
------------------------------

Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:17 pm

bvilletom wrote: Glad to see you got your 36hp engine done + running. I'm happy to have inspired you to make the single port head mods, it looks like a good job. Our engines are quite similar, mine is a bit smaller (74x77) and probably milder on the cam. I think if more people knew how much potential there is in the modified 36hp single port heads compared to the Okrasa there would be more heads done. I'm pleasantly surprised at the performance of my "Brukrasa" single port heads at the Maxton standing mile LSR meet in Oct 07 at 91.6mph in full street trim.

There appears to be more alum thickness in the 36hp heads than in the later type 1 heads. Just think of the potential of some creative welding to make dual ports + to make a Denzel-style combustion chamber.

Keep adding to the excellent Oval56 web site and here is wishing all vintage speed folks happy New Year.

bvilletom (Brukrasa)

hi bvilletom,

thanks for that kind words, and yes your work inspired me :D

i did not have completly adusted the engine right now, becaus we have a f***cold winter here thes days in germany, and also i prepare a original muffluer to fit on this engine thes days ( look a bit more vintage with tde pipes than this empi exhaust (i hope that the engine will not loose any horsepower .....)

next step to single ports will be a 38mm inletvalve ( i think 37 or 37,5 will be the maximum) and a 32mm outletvalve... + 82mm pistons....

a frind of mine has bought a piper engine ( for lightweight airplanes) wich has 42hp, an okrasa crank and 82mm pistons with original 36hp heads... i hope he will get it the next days and we can have a closer look at that engine....

for me it makes a lot of fun tu create a engine like this.....

Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:21 pm

I really liked the video. That engine sounds real good. I'm very excited to see all this old speed 36hp racing mods and such. Kinda makes me wish I had not sold all the 36hp engines I got with the last car and parts lot I bought. I have one left. I may have to try and do something with it. I can't believe I just sat and read 14 pages on 36hp engines. Too Cool thanks to everyone who posted.

Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:20 pm

bvilletom wrote:
There appears to be more alum thickness in the 36hp heads than in the later type 1 heads. Just think of the potential of some creative welding to make dual ports + to make a Denzel-style combustion chamber.

bvilletom (Brukrasa)

Hello Brukrasa,

that`s what i thought september last year and i started to modifiy stock 36hp heads to dual ports!

But these days i have to less time....i don`t want to let them weld, i want to weld them myself!

And all these other projects... :? , restoring a so42 westy, building a 2,4l Type 1 engine....

Some pics:

Please start your dual port stock heads to motivate me... :D

And yeaahhh, today i got my pieper aircraft engine!

69.5mm okrasa crank

82 mm Alu Nikasil cylinders = 1467 ccm :shock:

42hp at 3100/min

45hp at 3200/min

Wolfgang

http://myokrasa.oyla22.de/cgi-bin/hpm_homepage.cgi

Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:27 pm

Wolfgang 1

Fantastic! I wish I had your skills. The head work looks phenominal and I hope you have success. Keep us posted.

Burly

Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:44 pm

great topic guys -- my olspeed 36hp engine is almost done -- hope to get it running in a couple of weeks -- you can see some pics on http://turtle.skynetblogs.be

Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:38 pm

Wolfgang1,

I have some more questions about the 36hp head welding. When you welded on the heads that are on the motor now did you just weld or did you first heat them to 400 degrees F and then cool them slowly in ashes - or such.
I've read all kinds of things about how to weld late Type 1 heads. Some threads say to use one kind of welding alloy for the fins, etc and another alloy for the combustion chambers. They say if not pre-heated and cooled properly the head becomes soft and turns to junk. Most likely the 36hp heads are made from a way-better aluminum than the later type 1 heads.
I'm trying to avoid ruining heads that I've put that much work into.

You Pieper aircraft motor looks real good!