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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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 Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
Are all the stock cross braces shown in that pic? |
There is another cross brace. I cut the other cross brace out with the roof. You can see it here:
The brace is completely different on a passenger van. That one can be seen here, it has the black wire running across it:
On a passenger van, both cross braces are the same, and its the same cross brace as the front brace on the westy. Its only the rear brace on the westy that is different to accommodate the bed sitting lower than the roof line.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia
Last edited by edgood1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Robw_z wrote: |
Amazing work. While I would prefer to do it your way, I do not have the skill. Those who do it the "easy" way often cut a small hole about the size of the factory sunroof. Could one not cut a huge hole all the way back to a few inches from the hatch and just replace the arched front brace wiu the westy one, or fabricate one like it? Then the bed could be made flat.
- rob |
I actually saw someone here on thesamba who did it that way. They actually cut out the just the "hole" area of the westy roof and welded that on to the passenger roof. That same person posted his converted syncro in the classifieds just a few days later for something like $10,000.
In my opinion that method could compromise the structural integrity of the van, because I see no way to get the cross braces welded up properly to the frame of the unibody without removing the entire clip.. It would be safer to just cut the "sunroof hole". if you just cut the sunroof hole between the B and C cross braces you're only cutting the roof skin which has no structural strength to it.. If you cut into the cross brace and try to rig something else up you're asking for trouble.
This is only theoretical talk though. I'm not an expert on this and don't take my advice to heart. Any modification you make to your van is at your own risk.
EDIT: i'll put some pics here to show detail.
This is how the "C" cross brace (connecting the C pillars) on the westy is attached:
Heres the B brace on the westy, which is the same as both the B and C on the passenger van:
Heres the C brace on the passenger side removed, note how its spot welded as opposed to the westy which is overlap welded:
And heres how I attached it. Since this is a structural area I made damn sure that my welds were much stronger than they were on the westy:
One other thing to mention is that there is a support bracket integrated into the brace that hides under the roof clip. Getting it out and then back in is a bit of a challenge. I did a hot blind weld from the inside to get the lower part welded in. This part is identical on both the passenger and westy...although I've seen pics of a different version, my donor and recipient were the same.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Correct, there is no need whatsoever to replace the entire roof skin like this to get a flat roof/bed. There is a simpler approach that doesn't take nearly as much work and does not require painting part or all of the vehicle. The only problem to solve is the arched brace that needs to be replaced with a flat brace. The Westy flat brace is the wrong answer for this approach and rectangular tubing is the right answer.
Mark
| Robw_z wrote: |
Amazing work. While I would prefer to do it your way, I do not have the skill. Those who do it the "easy" way often cut a small hole about the size of the factory sunroof. Could one not cut a huge hole all the way back to a few inches from the hatch and just replace the arched front brace wiu the westy one, or fabricate one like it? Then the bed could be made flat.
- rob |
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HeftySmurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Nice work!
I was wondering what the ceiling looks like going back in. When I install my high top in want to have the ceiling flat and remove the headliner. I have seen baltic birch works pretty well. Wondering the best wat to do that in a passenger van.....
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-Lorenzo
90 GL w/ Bostig |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Roof attachment is complete!
Here's the rear hatch area. I just ground down the welds, did some metal filing and painted it with POR15. Its not the prettiest but this area is well hidden behind the hatch...and it wasn't very pretty from the factory either so I'm ok with it.
The completed rain gutters
The windshield lip..kinda looks weird in this pic::
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| The hardtops had another cross member at the C pillar. |
interesting - I thought the poptop vans had EXTRA bracing in the bodies (?) |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| randywebb wrote: |
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| The hardtops had another cross member at the C pillar. |
interesting - I thought the poptop vans had EXTRA bracing in the bodies (?) |
they do, you misread those posts. He was referring to the picture where one of the braces was already cut out.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm currently doing bodywork. Once I put the pop top on the van won't fit in the garage anymore... so I got lots to do while its in there and the weather is cold.
I cut out sections of window sills and welded new sections in... pics to come.
Also painting the interior LY3D tornado red.... we're off to the paint shop soon.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm continuing the pics in a new album, the first one had too many pics, it took a while to load:
http://picasaweb.google.com/eddiegood/Westy_conversion_part2?feat=directlink
Over the weekend I continued with body work. I did some more paint testing for the interior. I'm going to paint everything except the exterior...that I'm outsourcing to the pros for a top quality job.
I tried some interior parts with Rustoleum High Performance Enamel in a rattle can. The color saftey red is pretty close to VW Tornado Red LY3D. It came out pretty good. As good as can be expected from cheap paint.
I decided to get a gallon of the stuff and test it:
In these pics, I painted the sliding door with Dupont Centari single stage Tornado Red and the rear hatch with Rustoleum "Professional" High performance enamel. I sprayed them both with my devillbiss startingline hvlp gun. For the price you can't go wrong with the rustoleum. I thinned it out pretty good and the coverage was not as good as the centari, but with a few coats it should work great for the interior parts that don't see the weather....easy to touch up later on too.
sorry for the low quality pics, my camera is mia. took these with the cell phone.
Here is what I have left to do:
Finish fixing dents
Weld in the floor brackets
Finish painting the interior parts
Cut the utility outlet holes
Install glass with new seals
Install the dash
Install the rear hatch
Install the Sliding door
Install the pop top with new seals and hardware
Finish putting in the b-quiet sound insulation
Attach the windshield washer hose to the pump (don't forget this, eddie)
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18776
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't sweat the windshield breaking. No glass companies that I am familiar with will guarantee they won't break a used windshield putting it in. If they break it, you have to buy a new one anyhow. Better to break it your self trying. Old glass becomes very brittle. It is just not as flexible as new glass. I am very impressed with your progress. It looks cold out and very tight space for working indoors. Thank you for the documentation. I think the end result will be much nicer than if you tried to convert a 2wd camper to a syncro. mark |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| rsxsr wrote: |
| Don't sweat the windshield breaking. No glass companies that I am familiar with will guarantee they won't break a used windshield putting it in. If they break it, you have to buy a new one anyhow. Better to break it your self trying. Old glass becomes very brittle. It is just not as flexible as new glass. I am very impressed with your progress. It looks cold out and very tight space for working indoors. Thank you for the documentation. I think the end result will be much nicer than if you tried to convert a 2wd camper to a syncro. mark |
thanks! now that the weather is getting nicer I can work outside and hopefully move at a little quicker pace. Once the top is on it won't fit back in the garage...so theres a lot of driving it in and out... It is super tight working in the garage. theres no place to store all the parts 
Bodywork is slow painful work. I'm getting close. Getting it to the shop for paint is the major hurdle. Once its there I'll paint all the interior trim pieces.
I'll paint the drivers door next, then install the dash.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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VanWilder
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: PDX-Weird Town, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Ambitious project my man! Looking real good so far. I can't wait to see your finished product.
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VW
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"83.5" Vanagon GL Air cooled "VanWilder"
VanWilder has given back to me more then I could ever put into it September 22, 2010
Malama Ka `Aina—"Respect the Land" |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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Sir Sam
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1724
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rsxsr wrote: |
| No glass companies that I am familiar with will guarantee they won't break a used windshield putting it in. If they break it, you have to buy a new one anyhow. |
You need a new glass company.
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'91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2124
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sir Sam wrote: |
| rsxsr wrote: |
| No glass companies that I am familiar with will guarantee they won't break a used windshield putting it in. If they break it, you have to buy a new one anyhow. |
You need a new glass company. |
yeah, seriously. thats like saying a garage will not guarantee they won't crash your car on a test drive and if they break it you have to buy a new one.
well... not really...
in Massachusetts law requires you to have glass coverage on your insurance policy, or at least they used to... but I still have it and it has saved me the cost of a new windshield....oh.... about 5 times now 
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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Sir Sam
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1724
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| edgood1 wrote: |
| Sir Sam wrote: |
| rsxsr wrote: |
| No glass companies that I am familiar with will guarantee they won't break a used windshield putting it in. If they break it, you have to buy a new one anyhow. |
You need a new glass company. |
yeah, seriously. thats like saying a garage will not guarantee they won't crash your car on a test drive and if they break it you have to buy a new one.
well... not really...
in Massachusetts law requires you to have glass coverage on your insurance policy, or at least they used to... but I still have it and it has saved me the cost of a new windshield....oh.... about 5 times now |
Ya we don't have there here, in fact I think most people don't have a glass policy here, I feel like it has something to do with how many windshields we go through here. Apparently we have more windshields replaced in colorado than any other state, apparently arizona comes in a close second.
I guess we just get so much road pebbles/sand here that they just get plastered and sand blasted. Really sucks having to replace your windshield every 2-3 years.
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'91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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Dogpilot
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2005
Posts: 4205
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I can endorse the Arizona windshield statistic. I went through two in a week. The rocks thrown up by a passing snowplow, and then closely followed by a bolt off a flatbed semi. The worst was my poor buddy who commuted down the I405 from Manhattan Beach to Irvine. It was during one of those epic periods where they tried to add a lane and had the 'wall o death' running for about 30 miles of the run for two or three years. He was getting his windshield replaced a couple of times a year on the old GTi from the debris being knocked about on the cruddy roadway. It also seemed the late 80's GTi's had a very thin windshield and would readily crack if impacted by nearly anything.
I think putting in Auto glass is a matter of feel. Somebody that does it all the time had a better sense of the amount of pressure to apply. I find it is almost always worth it to have a pro do that operation.
Your van will be a showpiece when your done. You have that great attention to detail that shows when your done. I just got mine out of my meatlocker hanger. Started right up ran great, but the brakes where a little soft. A bit of bleeding and they are firm again. The season for roadtrips is coming up, you need to finnish it off and enjoy it now.
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86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
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08 Range Rover SC
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240Gordy
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Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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hope you got rid of the fiberglass . . .
never mind.
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2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
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Sir Sam
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Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1724
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dogpilot wrote: |
I can endorse the Arizona windshield statistic. I went through two in a week.
I think putting in Auto glass is a matter of feel. Somebody that does it all the time had a better sense of the amount of pressure to apply. I find it is almost always worth it to have a pro do that operation.
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My nieghbor works for safelite/elite, he says arizona is their #2 market, makes sense to me, exactly what you described there happens here. Not much winter sand in texas for example.
Plus we also get the rapid temperature changes here that lead to cracking.
For me its nice having a neighbor who does windshields, my new one for the van cost me just around $100 installed, hard to beat IMO.
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'91 Carat Westy
87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon |
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