12v Starter on 6v Flywheel Conversion

[mitcharvey]

Here is an interesting project I just finished. I think it is well worth sharing with all of you.

http://coccinellebleu.blogspot.com/2007/09/12v-starter-on-6v-flywheel.html
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http://coccinellebleu.blogspot.com (updated 3/7/08 )

[glutamodo]

Interesting. I once tried to do something similar many years ago but couldn't get it to work.

You might try posting that link in the "Sticky" for 6V to 12V conversion too.... Sticky: 6 volt to 12 volt?

[MUNICH_VR6]

I wonder if a 6v pinion gear would fit on a self suported 12v automatic starter? This way I could eliminate the step of bothering with the bellhousing bushing. -mason-
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1969 ej22 bus
2014 Q5 tdi
2004 BMW Rockster R1150r


-mason-

[max-five]

Munich, that's worth a try.
That article was very interesting. Someone should start making new 1 piece bushings and make a million bux. I don't like the idea of a bushing inside a bushing. One is gonna spin and screw things up. And yes, I believe the 6v solenoid should be scrapped in favor of the 12. Since I am a 6v nazi, I won't be trying this...but it is interesting.
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[krisbeetle]

anyone else had sucsess with this conversion?

[Wayne S. Johnson]

You don’t need to spend the time and money to remove the engine, replace flywheel, replace pinion bushing or grind the bell housing. Using a 6 volt starter in a 12 volt conversion will trash your flywheel and starter teeth.

This is a quality remanufactured BOSCH starter, my supplier has 40 years of experience and has sold hundreds of these starters with no returns.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=551031
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[krisbeetle]

so I should buy one from you when I have all the parts to do it myself?


anyone have a REAL answer? and dont just want to sell there overpriced junk to me?

[bill may]

1963-1966 bus with optional 12 volt used a 6 volt starter with 12 volt solenoid.i forget the M-Code for this.
there was a 6volt auto-stick / automatic starter that used no bushing also in ghia application.
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Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617

[Humanure]

I was successful in swapping a 6v drive pinion assembly onto a 12v armature. Although I found that there are at least 2 different drive pinion assemblies and shift levers in 12v starters.

The first picture is my 12v starter with the 6v drive pinion and stacked bushings. I only used it a few times while trying to bench start a 40hp engine, so I won't be able to provide any info towards real-world use. The starter worked like a charm for the short amount of time I used it.

The last 2 pics show 2 differences I found while dismantling extra 12v starters that I had laying around. I'm not sure if 6v starters vary like this or are of one style. I guess I was lucky that I had extra 12v starters laying around and one matched up with the 6v style. To clarify, the pics below show 12v drive pinion assemblies and shift levers; don't mind the damage to the shorter drive pinion on the right.

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It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

[mitcharvey]

wow that's totally rad Humanure! I never thought anyone would ever try it. That's interesting there were different types, I guess I got lucky.

But on a sour note, that inner bushing finally disintegrated in my starter sometime this week. It looks like it spun out, maybe I should have used a glue instead of locktite.

Also the inner bushing in the bellhouse is ovaled-out and may go soon too. Both the outer bushings are intact and look unaffected. I'm not sure which one is causing the starter to intermittently go dead, I'm actually thinking the bellhouse bushing, since it would cause the greater lateral movement. But either way it's time for some new ones. I think I'm gonna look to have a new set machined.

I'd post a picture but there's nothing to see, just some flakes of bronze.

But hey, I got nearly three years to the day out of them! pretty stoked about that. I honestly didn't think it'd last more than a year.
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http://coccinellebleu.blogspot.com (updated 3/7/08 )

[smisk]

krisbeetle wrote "anyone else had success with this conversion?"

I did this conversion about three years ago...no problems with the starter. I used bearing mount to bond the two bushings in place.

As Humanure pointed out the 6 Volt bendix you are going to use needs to be the same design as the 12 Volt you will replace. If the two starter motors are the same length the bendix should be the same design in both. The conversion won't work using one of the newer shorter 12V starters and a bendix out of a longer 6V starter.
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'66 Bug
'70 Ghia

[Danwvw]

So where to I buy the 6 volt starter gear etc...?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bastardbus]

I think the failure would be due to stacked bushings. I think a solid one piece bushing would be the ticket. Would really be no different then stock. I see someone is making these and selling on samba here now. I wonder if he uses a single new or stacked bushing.
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Samba Member #95

[smisk]

I'm still using the same starter I converted 15 years ago.
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'66 Bug
'70 Ghia

[dustymojave]

In my '58 Baja, back in the mid 70s I converted it from split case to tunnel case trans, 36hp 1200 to 40hp 1200 with 83mm big bore pistons for 1385cc, and converted the whole car to 12V. I did all this for my dad to have a Baja Bug. The Bug had already been crashed into many times in its 375,000 miles, people then didn't care about just another Bug in Southern California. There were probably well over a million of them in the area anyway. Common as Immigrants in SoCal (including those who had immigrated from other parts of the US). For the 12V conversion, I used the original starter (2-owner car and the 1st was a friend and dad did all the mechanical work on it from new...So we KNEW that it was the original) with a 12V solenoid. Simple swap and the solenoid was only like $12 then. Worked great until the 1385 was worn out at nearly 750K miles. Then I upgraded to a 1600 and put in an SR17 (brain fade...I think that's the correct designation for the self supporting auto stick starter). Had to replace that with another same somewhere around 900K miles. Now has 956K. 3rd starter motor.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
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[bastardbus]

[fl59bug]

Bastardbus sorry to take this a bit off-topic but I looked at your joined date and wow, July 13 2000! You're "O.G" here on thesamba. much respect! 🙂

[Seb67]

THIS

[Wayne S. Johnson]