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brake line diagram?
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Ben Guerette
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: brake line diagram? Reply with quote

Is there a diagram/mapping for brake lines on a Vanagon? My book does not provide such info and some lines are busting one after an other. How bad can it be to redo entire steel line on that beast?

Thanks,
Ben
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mikepomerleau
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:30 pm    Post subject: Brake line diagram Reply with quote

My wife and I just bought a 1988 Vanagon. During CAA inspection the front left and right rear brake lines burst causing the van to fail inspection. We bought it anyway and negotiated the price down quite a bit from what the seller was asking.
I replaced every single metal and flexible line in the van. It took me an entire day 8 to 10 hours plus bleeding and adjusting time. But it was worth it. I drove the van on Sunday and it works great!

Here is what I did...
Parts required to do the entire van from front to back. I found it all at Napa (i bought mine in Shawinigan QC. If I can find it in Shawinigan you can find this stuff anywhere!
1. Brake fluid (I bought dot4) 2 pints
2. Steel Brake lines 10mm bubble flair connector with a diameter of 3/16 (4.75mm) See diagram...Buy some spare in case you kink the lines while bending!
60 inches (X3) about 10$ each (pre-flared with connectors)
40 inches (x1) about 7$
30 inches (x2) about 7$
20 inches (x2) about 6$
12 inches (x2) at about 5$
one 10mm bubble flair female to female union.
3. Flexible lines (2 short ones in the rear 2 longer ones in the front)
a. These can be ordered through your car parts dealer and are from 15 to 35$ each
4. 8,10,11,12,14mm box wrenches
5. 2 good pairs of vice grips
6. A Turkey baster (to remove brake fluid from the master cylinder
7. A hammer (always need a hammer with a VW)
8. A 10 and 11 mm rusty bolt extractor looks like a double sided box wrench with two round ratchet ends (my old brake line connectors were really stuck these tools saved my life!) I got mine at Canadian Tire.
9. A pair of small bolt cutters (to cut your rusty brake lines)
10. A beer bottle to catch brake fluid. You can start with a full one and empty it, but donít drink the brake fluid...it tastes horrible and it is poison!
11. Flashlight or Mechanics lamp
12. Phillips and flat head screwdrivers
13. Rubber mechanics gloves (brake fluid is bad for your skin and rusty brake lines mess up your knuckles!)

good luck!

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Cold Steel
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you do your fuel lines? Should
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the information.

How many people get their first post nominated for the Sticky ?

You get my vote too.
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post, but I need to question specifically the rear solid lines after the flex, I did mine and they were 20" in length, possibly you mixed up a dimension?
Please verify.
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellington wrote:
Excellent post, but I need to question specifically the rear solid lines after the flex, I did mine and they were 20" in length, possibly you mixed up a dimension?
Please verify.


Ummm...same year? Trust but verify...
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
Wellington wrote:
Excellent post, but I need to question specifically the rear solid lines after the flex, I did mine and they were 20" in length, possibly you mixed up a dimension?
Please verify.


Ummm...same year? Trust but verify...


No but I believe all Vanagon rears are the same.
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Zero419
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fronts have a short hardline after the flexline to the caliper.
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RicoS
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: brake line diagram? Reply with quote

Ben Guerette wrote:
Is there a diagram/mapping for brake lines on a Vanagon? My book does not provide such info and some lines are busting one after an other. How bad can it be to redo entire steel line on that beast?

Thanks,
Ben


Not bad at all. You should not need a diagram (which would only be a schematic, anyway), just use the lines you remove as patterns for the new lines.

You can piece together whatever you need from the selection of pre-flared lines and fittings at the auto supply house. Whatever you do, do not be tempted to use plumbing compression fittings as shown in detail for a Vanagon by some moron elsewhere on the Net; compression fittings are not up to the task.

Taking a cue from Volvo, I've started using Cunifer (copper-nickel alloy, DOT approved) brake line. Cunifer brake line will never rust out and it is FAR easier to work than stainless, it seals better, too. I bought a coil of Cunifer at a local auto supply house. I don't remember what it cost, but it was much cheaper than the i-net vendors.

There was no way in hell that I could justify the cost of a decent bubble flarer, so I fabricated some adapters to use on a standard flaring tool. The adapters I made grip the tubing without all those serrations left by the standard tool and accurately form the bubble flare in one shot. It took some trail-and-error to dial in how much tubing had to extend beyond the clamping die, but once that was determined, I was off to the races.

Richie
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to do some rear brake work (discovered a bubble in the flex hose) and thought this thread would be a good one to bump..

I know we all preach to inspect yoru Fuel lines.. but also if your brake flex hoses or rusty metal lines are ~30yrs old like mine..
crawl under and give them a thorough inspection.. your life and the lives of others can depend on it..

best

Dan
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW - this thread relates more to flex hoses: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=507663
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
I have to do some rear brake work (discovered a bubble in the flex hose) and thought this thread would be a good one to bump..

I know we all preach to inspect yoru Fuel lines.. but also if your brake flex hoses or rusty metal lines are ~30yrs old like mine..
crawl under and give them a thorough inspection.. your life and the lives of others can depend on it..

best

Dan


Here's what I wrote some time ago regarding this topic:

"From my archive of near-death experiences, I once popped the front-to-rear brake line on an '84 sunroof while on the George Washington Parkway just as I was cruising past the Iwo Jimo Memorial on a Friday at about 5 PM. After that number, it took several visits to a proctologist to get me straightened out.

When I yelled, "We don't have any BRAKES!!!", my family thought I was doing a Clark Griswold imitation and they sat there looking bored.

By the Grace of Dee Lawrd, I kept from running up the ass of a braking 325i, and I managed to limp into a rest stop. After I donned a disposable set of coveralls (required attire for any Vanagon owner's wardrobe), I crawled under that pig and crimped off the fore/aft brake line. I then feather-footed it into the nearest VW dealer in Alexandria, VA. If I had not crimped-off that line, I would have still been sitting along side the GWP, or else I'd be in a mass grave with my loved-ones."

By the way, that Sunroof van had been gone over from stem to stern and APPEARED to be roadworthy enough to carry my loved ones safely to the beach. But, in my defense, it would be a rare man indeed who would think that just maybe the brake line routed above the gas tank is sitting there about to shit the bed.

The lesson here is assume NOTHING with a Vanagon.

Richie
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Blueconundrum
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is the brilliant thing I have been looking for, for quite some time now. Anyone have wisdom as to how this would vary for an 86 Syncro?

And ignorant question (but I'd much rather look ignorant in front of you guys than the dudes at my FLAPS) but the lines will come with the fittings on them already and I just have to bend them and put them on, yeah?
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vwmike333
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wellington wrote:
dhaavers wrote:
Wellington wrote:
Excellent post, but I need to question specifically the rear solid lines after the flex, I did mine and they were 20" in length, possibly you mixed up a dimension?
Please verify.


Ummm...same year? Trust but verify...


No but I believe all Vanagon rears are the same.


Wrong. The rear hard lines are all 21.6 inches long Here'a info cut and pasted from my post elsewhere on the Vanagon forum;

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439344&highlight=complete+brake+line

I've been doing some research of my own and come up with some info;

all hard lines are 4.7mm (3/16 inches) diameter
all tubing nuts are M10X1.0 threads
all tubing flaring is ISO bubble flare

ETKA shows the following parts info for LHD/ non- ABS,

1. Master cylinder to front tee 1850mm (72.8 inches)
2. Master cylinder to rear brake pressure reducer 2130mm (83.8 inches)
3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)
7. Brake pressure reducer to rear tee 2900mm (114.2inches)
8. Rear tee to left rear brake hose 623mm (24.5inches)
9.Rear tee to right rear brake hose 285mm (11.2 inches)
10.Left rear brake hose to left rear wheel cylinder 550mm (21.6 inches)
11.Right rear brake hose to right rear wheel cyl. 550mm (21.6 inches)

Some corrections found while doing total line replacement;

[quote="vwmike333"]
vwmike333 wrote:

ETKA shows the following parts info for LHD/ non- ABS,

3. Front tee to left brake hose 140mm (5.5 inches)
4. Left front brake hose to left front caliper 350mm (13.8inches)
5. Front tee to right front brake hose 950mm (37.4 inches)
6. Right front brake hose to right front caliper 350mm(13.8inches)

Mike B.


These are wrong in 1986 thru1991 VW ETKA! Some MAJOR differences:

3. Front tee to left front brake hose measured 560mm (22.0 inches)
4 and 6. L & R front brake hose to L & R calipers (Girling) measured 120mm (4.7 inches).
5. Front tee to right front brake hose measured 1150mm (45.3 inches)

1980 thru 85 shows;

3. Front tee to LF hose 500mm
4. LF hose to caliper 120mm, while RF shows as 1100mm! (wrong, both are identical @120mm!)


Total length 3/16" line required 10678mm(420.4inches)
or 35 feet
(These measurements are from flare-to-flare (add 1 inch total when cutting each line to allow additional length for flaring each end of the tubing) (11 inches)
So, if you plan to buy enough to do the whole van, you will need to buy two 25-foot coils of brake line. Right now, Napa and Carquest have a sale on it so it's between $23 and $29 per coil. I can't recommend attempting to flare the poly-coated line, it's hard to hold and slips out of the tool while flaring. I bought the copper-nickel line for $29 on sale at Carquest. Napa doesn't sell the copper-nickel but does sell plain and poly-coated line coils. It bends easily and won't corrode for many years.
Napa does sell a professional ISO flaring tool for $96 with a lifetime warrantee.
Also, I'm now ordering 20 tubing nuts thru Fedhillusa.com for $1 apiece plus shipping. http://store.fedhillusa.com/m13.aspx
Vancafe and Bus Depot has the hoses for $13 front and $12 rear, plus shipping. They also have the line clips (6 needed?), hose clips (2 needed?) and retaining springs (6 needed) for $1.50 to $2.80 each Airhead parts and Cip1 has the brass brake tees for $6 each plus shipping.

Flexible brake hose specs;
1. Left/right front brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 400mm (15.75 in)
2. Left/right rear brake hoses M10X1.0 female/female 160mm(6.3inches)

This should help fill the gaps in missing information for this job.

Mike B.
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