Syncro + Subaru Cooling Issues

[mraible]

Hello all,

I bought a VW Syncro a few weeks ago, complete with a Subaru conversion (a 1996 3.3L Subaru SVX). I saved the original listing, it's quite a machine.

http://static.raibledesigns.com/repository/text/syncro.html

My wife and I flew to Idaho to pick it up on December 5th and drove it back to Denver. We had sub-zero temps most of the time, but had no mechanical issues along our route.

After arriving back in Denver, the coolant light started flashing and I ignored it for the most part, until I took it into Rick at JDB Imports a few days later. He noticed the coolant was low and that the hose clamps could use replacing. After adding coolant, the light when out and I thought I was good to go.

Then I tried to get it to pass emissions, and it failed.

That weekend, while we were driving to a friend's party about 20 miles away, the engine overheated (smoke billowing out of the rear vents). I refilled the coolant reservoir and waited a couple hours before driving again. On the way home, same problem, with lots of smoke and overheating. I tried to remove the cap on the reservoir, but it started to bubble over when I did.

I talked to the previous owner and he mentioned the cooling system probably just needed "burping" to get the air out.

To fix the emissions failure I took it to Comprehensive Car Car (on Evans Ave). They discovered I didn't have a check engine light, along with a few other sensors they needed to diagnose emissions issues. I also asked them to bleed the cooling system and mentioned the overheating. $800 later, I was on my way to get emissions tested again. It failed again, but I found if you spend $715 on emissions fixing, you can apply for a waiver. My application is still pending, but I was able to get temporary tags.

That all happened about a week ago, and on Monday of this week (12/23), we packed up the bus and began a 900-mile journey to NW Montana. We made it about 6 hours before the coolant light started flashing.

We pulled over and I loosened the coolant cap to release the air pressure. This worked and the light went off. We continued this process for the next few hours until we arrived in Billings for the night.

The next day, we weren't so lucky. Loosening the cap didn't solve the problem, and the engine started overheating. We made it 150 miles to Bozeman, and proceeded to try and get some assistance on Christmas Eve. We had some Subaru and VW guys look at it, and they didn't think it was a leaky head gasket b/c there wasn't any black flakes in the coolant. They thought the problem was a (sealed) VW cooling system on a Subaru engine (that's expects a non-sealed system).

We ventured to an auto parts store and attempted to fix it ourselves by bleeding the system. After a couple hours, we gave up, parked it at a local shop and rented a car to finish our journey.

This morning, I talked to the shop (Straightaway Motors) and they said there's lots of air in the system. However, they're not sure what's causing it. I'd like to get this fixed once-and-for-all, rather than bleeding the system and having to do it again every week.

Does anyone know what could be causing this problem and how to fix it?

Thanks,

Matt

[pnwkayaker]

Matt,

according to your profile, you're located in Colorado. Any chance that you can move the van to Rocky Mountain Westy (http://www.rockymountainwesty.com) so they can do a thorough check? They're located in Fort Collins, and are very well versed on Subaru conversions on Vanagons (selling themselves a kit for such conversion).
_________________
87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")

Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link)

[mraible]

Rocky Mountain Westy is a great idea once we're back in Colorado. However, that won't be until January 6th. We're heading to Bozeman today to either pick it up or get our skis off of it - it all depends on weather Straightaway can fix it or not. I just spoke with them and they said it was a gallon low on coolant and had a lot of air in system. They bled it, but also know that probably won't solve the problem permanently.

[joetiger]

Can they pressure test the cooling system to look for leaks? How is that much air getting into the system if it's been completely and properly bled?

Oh, and x2 on Rocky Mountain Westy once you get it back here.
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell

[flomulgator]

From my very recent 3.3 SVX coolant leaking experience, I'd check the rear heater under the bench if you have one. Check floor for coolant. When an air bubble travels back from that location it can air lock the system.
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[flomulgator]

Also, damn that's a nice rig!!
I'll trade you my working SVX syncro westy if you want
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[SCM]

Sorry, I have no ideas but just want to reassure you that Keith and the guys at Straightaway are good folks. They actually let me run a "tab" with them when my wife's Jetta is acting up. Since they do VW and Subys, Straightaway is probably just as a good a bet to fix your problem as anyone in town.

That said, more Vanagons show up at Small Car Clinic (Belgrade) and Autostop (East Main in Bzn). Neither of those places, nor any in Bzn, are going to be nearly as experienced as RMW with converted vans though.
_________________
'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine

[Rocky Mountain Westy]

Thanks for the endorsments guys.

Was this originally a Subagon conversion? Those guys did some funny things in their coolant systems. Not sure why but I have seen a couple. Svx conversions can be tempermental when it comes to the coolant system and bleeding it out. My guess is you have a coolant leak somewhere and it just keeps getting low and it sounds like it might be getting worse.

Joetiger nailed it. Time for a coolant pressure test.

Let me know if I can help.

Mike
_________________
Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]

The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133

[Franklinstower]

[kalispell365]

If you had steam coming out of the side vents earlier on,please do as already mentioned and have the coolant system pressure checked.i would bet you have a small leak somewhere that is allowing air pocket(s) to occur slowly over time.It could be something as simple as a leaky clamp,or pinhole in a cooling hose.remedy the problem before attempting to nurse it home,as overheating a subaru motor is a sure way to either replacing head gaskets (minimally) or ending up needing a new motor.Getting overheated is SUPER hard on subaru engines! I own a subaru shop,many new motors are required by attempting to "get home".

Sounds like it is in capable hands...if all else fails,its going to be FAR cheaper to get it shipped on a car carrier back to north denver than replacing a warped out svx motor.

[furrylittleotter]

my svx gave me the exact same fits using the small car setup, then after fiddling with it a hundred times it was fine for a LOOOONG time. Then I parked it for 3 months, when I got back, it overheated in the first few miles, then again twice. THen it blew it's head gasket. It had worn out it's welcome so I yanked it and sold it, put in a 2.2.

Neil2

[mraible]

Thanks all, it sounds like we need a pressure test and to check the coolant for HCs. Yesterday, Straightaway bled the system and took it for a spin. They said it was still running pretty hot and wanted to keep it for a few more days. They now suspect it's the thermostat or the water pump.

[flomulgator]

If you are losing coolant, IMHO, the source of your woes is neither the thermostat nor the water pump.
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[Wildthings]

To loose coolant you pretty much either have to leak it out, boil it out, or be getting combustion gases into the cooling system and thus displacing the coolant and forcing it through the overflow.

On a stock WBXer system you can usually see bubbles moving through the system if you have a compression leak, don't have a clue about your system.

Not sure why loosening the cap would have helped at any point along the line, but perhaps the cap itself is the issue. The cap should relieve the pressure in the system when it gets too high and should allow fluid back into the system as the engine cools.

[SCP_Austin]

If you are losing coolant... It is going out of the system somewhere...

While thermostat could also be bad, there is some other issue at play. Good luck hombre!

[kalispell365]

Be sure and only use a genuine subaru dealer thermostat in your van,the aftermarket tstat will guarantee an overheat even if you fix the coolant leak.The subaru thermostat is substantially beefier than any aftermarket,and has much more travel between open/close.i often get in overheating subarus that have just had a "new" aftermarket thermostat installed that did not overheat prior...new subaru thermostat installed and away they go!

There is a subaru dealer near I-90 in bozeman,dont forget the thermostat gasket.

[Crankey]

do you have the original VW coolant pressure bottle and blue cap ? shouldn't the blue cap vent to the overflow tank when there is boiling pressure behind it ? if not then the cap may be bad...right ?

do people have the valves open to the heater cores when they bleed the system ? is the heater core under the back seat leaking ?

[mraible]

Hey all,

It turned out to be a bad thermostat. $20 part, $500 to replace it. Straightaway took their time to diagnose the problem and provided the right fix. I can't thank them enough.

Apparently, replace the thermostat would've been easy on a Subaru engine in a Subaru (or on a VW engine in a VW), but not on a Subaru engine in a VW. They said they had to pull the engine to replace it.

The good news is we made it home to Denver today, from Bozeman, with no issues. The roads were treacherous, but our Syncro handled them all quite easily.

Now we just need to figure out if it's possible to get more than 10 mpg.

[flomulgator]

I guess it was the thermostat causing boiling causing pressure causing coolant loss then? Either way glad it is resolved and that your van performed well on the way home. EG33 syncro westies are bad on gas but 10 mpg seems awfully low. But then again speeds of 80mph are mostly legal out there and resistance increases exponentially with speed on these things.

FYI worst I've got was 12 (@75 & unloaded) best 20 (@55 w/ tailwind and possible filling error
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[Crankey]