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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Christopher Schimke wrote: |
I have run Porterfield's R4S compound front pads on the street, and while a little dusty, I really liked them. |
Can you compare them to Akebono, Reds or Yellows?
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
I don’t really use the Vanagon brakes much. I coast to a lot of signal lights and stops. I do use the brakes on descents , and they always seem good enough for me. |
Around here its pretty much all ascents and descents - brakes are essential! The stock brakes aren't really up to long descents - I've cooked them on the tintop coming down Duffey Lake Road. The vented A4 discs are a lot better.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 4279
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| I’d have to see a study of 60 to 0 braking times and distance where the only difference is the booster size. Then I might be more inclined to go along. |
In a test, 60-0 times are 95% the tire, you know that. It's easy to stop the tire. A lot more difficult to stop the vehicle. Easier pedal feel doesn't reduce one time stopping power, it reduces fatigue and increases confidence in around town driving.
I'll say it again. Electric brake booster is the answer.
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'87 Syncro Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition
'85 Westy Sciuridae Domus Edition |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18817
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Quote: |
| Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
15 pages later and bigger booster equals poopy pedal. Adding a larger booster other than availablity, just didn’t process for me.
I suspect folks have been rebuilding brake systems and adding the larger booster getting that improved braking affect.
I’d have to see a study of 60 to 0 braking times and distance where the only difference is the booster size. Then I might be more inclined to go along.
Pedal feel is also a personal thing. Same with driving style and braking style. Also time behind the wheel. After driving our 2025 Outback, our 2004 Camry feels like the brakes are non existent at first stop by comparison. I personally like a heavy pedal. I always went up a size or 2 in the race car to increase the leg effort. For me it was easier to threshold brake with the extra effort. I don’t really use the Vanagon brakes much. I coast to a lot of signal lights and stops. I do use the brakes on descents , and they always seem good enough for me. |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 809
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2025 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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Was just curious why you had porterfield on the rear and not on the front.
Christopher's answer is the same as I'd say.
I have dark/black wheels, so the dust doesn't bother me as much as someone with light colored wheels,, nontheless, I see it and hafta clean them due to ocd...
| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| do.dah wrote: |
| Why not porterfield on the front? |
Good question! I think that at the time the Porterfield pad choices seemed too 'racy', whereas the EBC Yellow was pitched as perfect for hard street use.
Do you know something don't? |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5529
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| do.dah wrote: |
| Why not porterfield on the front? |
Good question! I think that at the time the Porterfield pad choices seemed too 'racy', whereas the EBC Yellow was pitched as perfect for hard street use.
Do you know something don't? |
I have run Porterfield's R4S compound front pads on the street, and while a little dusty, I really liked them.
_________________
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T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| do.dah wrote: |
| Why not porterfield on the front? |
Good question! I think that at the time the Porterfield pad choices seemed too 'racy', whereas the EBC Yellow was pitched as perfect for hard street use.
Do you know something don't?
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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do.dah
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 809
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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Why not porterfield on the front?
| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| MarkWard wrote: |
When switching compounds you need to bed them in. This process transfers pad material to the rotor giving you the grip you are looking for. Follow the manufacturer’s procedure. If not, look at hawk brake for their bed in directions.
Also, performance compounds have a best temp working range. Most driving Vanagon brakes aren’t that hot, so a compound for lower temps is better. You need to know your operating temp when choosing compounds. Higher is not always better.
I’ve got performance friction on the front, but their street compound. Brakes have always seemed better with some temp in them. Problem is in a panic stop, generating temp is an option. Not saying this is your problem. |
Thanks, Mark. I also have a road racing background and am very familiar with how to bed in brakes. Hence the choice of Porterfield for the rear
shoes. Good people.
The EBC Yellow were excellent when warmed up but brutal cold. The Akebono are just okay at all times.
I'm looking at giving the EBC Reds a try - the description seems to fit my usage. |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
When switching compounds you need to bed them in. This process transfers pad material to the rotor giving you the grip you are looking for. Follow the manufacturer’s procedure. If not, look at hawk brake for their bed in directions.
Also, performance compounds have a best temp working range. Most driving Vanagon brakes aren’t that hot, so a compound for lower temps is better. You need to know your operating temp when choosing compounds. Higher is not always better.
I’ve got performance friction on the front, but their street compound. Brakes have always seemed better with some temp in them. Problem is in a panic stop, generating temp is an option. Not saying this is your problem. |
Thanks, Mark. I also have a road racing background and am very familiar with how to bed in brakes. Hence the choice of Porterfield for the rear
shoes. Good people.
The EBC Yellow were excellent when warmed up but brutal cold. The Akebono are just okay at all times.
I'm looking at giving the EBC Reds a try - the description seems to fit my usage.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18817
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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When switching compounds you need to bed them in. This process transfers pad material to the rotor giving you the grip you are looking for. Follow the manufacturer’s procedure. If not, look at hawk brake for their bed in directions.
Also, performance compounds have a best temp working range. Most driving Vanagon brakes aren’t that hot, so a compound for lower temps is better. You need to know your operating temp when choosing compounds. Higher is not always better.
I’ve got performance friction on the front, but their street compound. Brakes have always seemed better with some temp in them. Problem is in a panic stop, generating temp is an option. Not saying this is your problem. |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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Thanks everybody for sharing your experiences with the E30 booster.
Last weekend I went back in and replaced the bigger booster with the OEM part. The pedal feel is very good now, high and firm, though stopping power is still less than breathtaking.
I'm not sold on the Akebono pads and Van Cafe shoes on the van currently. It stopped a lot better with the Porterfield shoes and EBC YellowStuff pads.
I only had a few thousand miles on the EBC pads when I was persuaded to try the Akebonos and I'm sure I put them in a box when we moved, but I can't find them...
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
Last edited by Jake de Villiers on Wed Jul 09, 2025 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7216
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18817
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Going to a larger diameter master cylinder will increase pedal effort. It’s possible to use a 25mm BMW master, but it takes some fitting. It’s documented in another thread. |
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wesitarz
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 1739
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Caliper stiffeners, larger 25mm MC (for a BMW 740i), SS flex hoses and brace for the MC flex was my solution for an acceptable pedal feel. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7216
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The 60 on the caliper with 2 side by side pistons actually does refer to the piston size, indirectly.
That caliper has a total piston area equivalent to a single 60mm piston.
So it uses the same master cyl fluid volume/pressure as a 60 so they mark it 60.
Mark
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| Got it, my bad, I thought it was the piston size but that's right, this one has 2 pistons the name doesn't apply to the piston size. |
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Now all this info makes sense, thank you for the extra explanation!
I installed some SA stock vented brakes recently with a 60mm single piston floating caliper, these feel awesome ( correct pedal feel) and work so much better than the ATE 57 with 288 rotors! Stock booster.
I went down a rabbit hole of brake pads, rotors and piston seal kits to keep these on the road since everything is pretty much NLA unless you cough up a lot of money from VW Classic Parts.
For people interested, I'm having new clevis made for the Vanagon: M9x1 for stock booster and clutch pedal.
M10x1.5 for BMW E30 booster users, and for the new ATE boosters I sell, bc I'm tired of chasing clevis cores and drill+ tap them.
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Did you manually adjust the rear brake shoes? That makes a surprising difference in pedal height and feel. |
Yes it does. The brakes were fine before I replaced the master and the booster.
Even with the handbrake on, the brakes are poopy.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12334
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| Did you manually adjust the rear brake shoes? That makes a surprising difference in pedal height and feel. |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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Thanks for the feedback you guys.
I don't have the front wheels off to see the flex but that's an interesting observation.
I drove it again yesterday and it does stop okay but I still hate the mushy pedal feel. I should bleed it again before I yank the dashboard apart.
Thanks, Alika, its good to see you're still engaged with the Vanagon community.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 18817
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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| The bigger booster should lessen effort. I’d suggest driving it a bit. You may find the actual braking is fine. The dog poo feeling is likely from the additional assist. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10389
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Bigger brake booster, improved brakes. |
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The 60 on the caliper with 2 side by side pistons actually does refer to the piston size, indirectly.
That caliper has a total piston area equivalent to a single 60mm piston.
So it uses the same master cyl fluid volume/pressure as a 60 so they mark it 60.
Mark
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| Got it, my bad, I thought it was the piston size but that's right, this one has 2 pistons the name doesn't apply to the piston size. |
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