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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: VW 411 and 412 Audi Strut Rod document (test) |
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It is fitting that today's date is ....4-12.... 
Here is the link to the document in my dropbox.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oa14cvfncmyreur/VW%20411...s.doc?dl=0
This is just a test. If its useful and can be read this way I will get a disc to Everett so it can be uploaded to the archive.
Bear in mind. This document could not be easily built here on the Samba. Its 111 pages, about 19,000 words of text and hundreds of photos and diagrams. If that sounds excessive....just bear in mind that it spans 25 years of mods and variations to the front struts.
Lots of things tried, lots of failures and several ways to go with each section of the mod.
I only included versions that worked but definitely warn of things that can fail. It has materials shopping list and painting notes.
It is a Microsoft word document. This was the easiest format to work in so that everyone could pretty much open it up.
It was done in Windows 7 64 bit. If need be I will make a translational doc for those with earlier word.
EDIT...sorry had to fix something...try it now
Ray
The link has been renewed at 8:20 pm central
Last edited by raygreenwood on Fri May 01, 2015 1:29 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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There are a few items missing or out of place in the document....translational issues. I will be working and tweaking it a little.
When it takes you to this document....it is locked for editing. Do NOT open Word online. You wont hurt the document....its just that many of the text boxes will not open for you to see what is in them.
Ray |
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bradself
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Damn!
Worth the wait, thank you! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bradself wrote: |
Damn!
Worth the wait, thank you! |
Still working on a few out of place details a we speak. It may be a Microsoft word compatibility issue. I will get this to a place where it can be downloaded (not sure if you can download it from drop box but you are welcome to try. I would wait a couple of days.
There are thousands of pictures some of which I took early and saved and as I go through them there may be a couple I will add to the final page as "supplemental"...in fact I just found one. Ray |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I am uploading a compatibility mode version right now. It may be worse...it may be better but I have to go through too see what if anything has changed. Bear with me. Ray
Ok...the link above has been changed. This file looks complete so far and the missing sections and a couple edits are back into it.
I need to print out all of the finished correct file and proofread the one in dropbox. Bear with me. Ray |
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bradself
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| As feedback: on 2008 Word for Mac none of your notes adjacent to arrows showed up. I'll give it a try on more recent OpenOffice for Windows |
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bradself
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| As of 7pm Pacific everything shows up in OpenOffice 4 for Windows. P25 you have the top note atop the center note, p27 has no notes, p34 has the overlay notes on the following page, p101 has notes superimposed, p122 same, the rest is pretty tight. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!....I will check and see what can be moved. The problem is the sketches that I built in word. If it was made in a version that your version cant translate well as an imbdd....it either deletes them, resizes them etc.....and then reflows everything.
I will see if I can find those, convert them to PDF or Jpeg in compatibility mode and reimbed.
I may have to fire up my netbook with XP and windows 2003 to see the Changes.
Ray |
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Lars S
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 817
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Ray, this is impressive work, everything more than clear, cant imagine the number of hours needed to put this together!
The doc shows up 100% OK on my laptop.
Thank You Ray!!!
Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver 
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold 
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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bradself
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, two slight confusions: looking at the CIP1 late Super Beetle mount I don't see the white nylon ring between the black nylon ring on the edge of the "cup" as your photos show on page 120.
And, we don't need the Super Beetle strut bushing or spacer. Obviously you don't include it.
All of this is doable for me but making the metal mounts. If anybody is venturing forth pm me if you can make a set for me along with yours. No welder, no where to weld, aw... |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| bradself wrote: |
Okay, two slight confusions: looking at the CIP1 late Super Beetle mount I don't see the white nylon ring between the black nylon ring on the edge of the "cup" as your photos show on page 120.
And, we don't need the Super Beetle strut bushing or spacer. Obviously you don't include it.
All of this is doable for me but making the metal mounts. If anybody is venturing forth pm me if you can make a set for me along with yours. No welder, no where to weld, aw... |
I just looked at the cip1 catalog. The part they list for 1974-1979 has the snap on glide ring around the top rim of the strut bearing housing or cup. It is black.
The part they make for 1974-1979....if you have a 1974 412 with the assymetrical bolt pattern....should bolt right in. If you have a 1974....its great to have that solution on tap.
As others have noted.....if you have a pre-1974 bolt pattern 411 or 412....meaning the strut mount bolts are 120° apart......the early super beetle bushings should bolt right in.
Back about....oh...late 90s before I started on this path....symmetrical pattern early super beetle bushings that I pulled from junk yards were a bit too big to fit without a bit of grinding on the plate ends in my 412. Others have noted they now fit. So if you want to stay with the original bonded bushings......the early super bushings from Cip1 should do.
Or as others noted....you can drill the extra holes to convert your early car to the late assymetrical pattern.
One thing I found ir memory serves is that even though you can bolt in a 1974 and later strut bushing into a 1970-1973 411/412......with the oblong shape, grinding the plate, new bolt holes.....the exact shaft center of that mount will be slightly off. It may or may not be a problem. But back in the day with few adjustment options on the front suspension I opted to make a hybrid.....because I wanted the 1974 and later strut bushing and bearing but wanted to keep the part centered in the same pattern I have and have few outward appearnce changes.
the hybrid strut mount is just a cool way to keep it looking as stock as possible.
I Can make a hybrid set for you if need be. Those took me about three hours prep, welding and grinding. Ray |
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bradself
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I have a 73 that surely has replacement cartridges in it now and a spare set of 73 struts that actually look like they have original wet cartridges in them, very thick rod. Plan was to rebuild the spares and rebuild the rest of the complete spare front end on the bench, not disable the car for longer than to install (or have a shop install.)
My original plan was to just redrill the strut towers for the early asym SB mount, but I'm liking your bulletproof approach. So sure, I'd be obliged and grateful, I can pm you once I buy the late SB CIP1 mounts.
I moved some of the text around myself in OpenOffice (for Windows  so I can see and read everything you've got, and honestly, it's straight forward and totally not lacking in any way Ray, the doc is quite an accomplishment. Look forward to the others coming! You will likely single handedly increas the collectable value of these cars, certainly more than they were valued in the past 20 years. Now we just need to keep fingers crossed that the Audi cartridges won't go out of production any time soon. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the compliments! I left the document unlocked because I suspect that with a few viewers....as long as text is not actually missing or dropped out....you can probably get it where it needs to be.
Originally this was destined to be a "flip book" or "e-zine".....however as I have found over the past year.....the free or even moderately cheap to medium priced software has so much it does not allow.....its worthless.
The two or three pieces of software I have found ....which are also fully backward and forward compatible. .....are huge software comparable to illustrator......in that you get a basic system for about say... $350....and then virtually every capability you need is an extra $100-300 plug-in......but the capabilites encompass full time publishing and print house levels.
As a recomendation.....until I get a little more testing on my latest build details.....if you want to use the "through hole" version of the top spring plate.....the simplest method is to stay with method 3 wherein the strut rod bushing protrudes through the plate with no extra washer stack.
The pair I finished yesterday....are really nice and tight. I think the drilled stub with cotter pin...or in a pinch a jamb nut with locknut....is the way to go. However its a little freaky.....the turning action of the strut bearing .....while smooth as glass....is about 5-7 times tighter because of all of the surface contact. I know that will loosen up about 50% as body weight takes the contact away from the top nut cup and the glide ring below it. Im going to work these a little and then take the top back off one to male sure its functioning right. Ray |
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pbnjimages
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Joined: March 14, 2015
Posts: 112
Location: Whittier CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Great work Ray, more than enough info for me to now proceed with front suspension work, thanks! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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The Centerlink rebuild dodocument will follow shortly. Its super simple in comparison.....virtually all pictures. Just have a spacer with o-rings to make.
Then radius arm bushings and spacers.....another simple one. .....then the delrin control arm bushings. .....all of which is already done and photographed. Just have to pile it together....but there is no long history and very few if any diagrams to draw. Ray |
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bradself
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ray, when you say "turning action 50% tighter" are you talking about turning the steering wheel, or twisting the struts out of the car?
The washers on the through hole version of the spring plate make sense, it seems like it would be a lot more difficult to tweek the bump stop spacer than just sanding a hair off a washer face. Or, I'm missing something obvious. |
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bradself
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Joined: January 13, 2013
Posts: 167
Location: SF, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, Lars, was it you that said you made the stub adapters for the Audi strut from OE cartridges? |
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Lars S
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 817
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bradself wrote: |
| Also, Lars, was it you that said you made the stub adapters for the Audi strut from OE cartridges? |
No it was not me...must have been someone else.
/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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Lars S
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007
Posts: 817
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
...
Originally this was destined to be a "flip book" or "e-zine".....
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Ray Im glad you didnt go for a flip book or similar where the pages of a conventional book are imitated on the screen. I hate theese, they tend to not function the way they were ment...browsing in them can be frustrating...they always make me upset. 
Word or PDF format is excellent, thanks again!
/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bradself wrote: |
Ray, when you say "turning action 50% tighter" are you talking about turning the steering wheel, or twisting the struts out of the car?
The washers on the through hole version of the spring plate make sense, it seems like it would be a lot more difficult to tweek the bump stop spacer than just sanding a hair off a washer face. Or, I'm missing something obvious. |
Twisting the strut bushing by hand when its out of the car. You will notice steering is tighter but it will return to center just find. The earlier versions were atiff when turning the strut bearing by hand as well. Ray |
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