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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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 Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject: ba6 pump |
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Did some testing on my heater this weekend and found that the pump was not functioning.
Are these fixable/rebuildable?
Is there a trick to get them to work?
It doesnt seem that there are many of these around.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53239
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Whack it on each end a few times against a workbench or stair tread, don't hit the terminals or fuel line fittings.
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grandpa pete
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Joined: July 06, 2008
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
he means whack the heater  |
No, remove the pump and whack it aginst something like a 2x4, the plunger inside glues itself in with old gas and needs to be knocked loose. You can also do it in place with a plastic dead blow mallet but you'd better be confident about your aim. Spraying some carb cleaner in both ports and letting it soak a while doesn't hurt either.
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grandpa pete
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
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Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
bus daddy;that was supposed to just be a wack it joke.....sorry to mess with your info....bored in a hotel again new york  |
Pete - I think he was dead serious.
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 Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53239
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
| bus daddy;that was supposed to just be a wack it joke.....sorry to mess with your info....bored in a hotel again new york |
Pete - I think he was dead serious. |
Oh don't worry, I get it  But since Mulcheese isn't a regular here we don't know anything about thier level of comprehension, what if they took it as "work now heater or I'll have to get all medeival on your ass!"? 
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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Oh dont mind me guys I get it.
I actually did that but very gently. I guess I will have to take it off and give a good whack and soak it some more in carb cleaner.
Next weeks project.
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I have been seeing the rubber diaphragms are hard as a rock (in the pumps and the reg) so Iam having to make new diaphragms sense there are no more new ones to be had. if that isn't fixed a fire will shirley be next.
and don't call me shirley. 
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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: |
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So I tried to do some whacking on the pump yesterday. I disconnected the pressure side and tapped on it with a tack hammer. Nothing!
What I did finnd out is this:
I do get voltage at the pump. Not sure how much since I have a digital meter but I can see the voltage rise and fall with the pulses.
With the pressure side off and the supply side still connected I rapped on the pump and it would spit a tiny bit of fuel out, with every blow, as if the plunger is moving.
How common is it for the windings to go bad? What else should I try?
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mulcheese wrote: |
| How common is it for the windings to go bad? What else should I try? |
Not very, pick up a cheap test light at Walmart and connect it between the disconnected pump wires, as the heater runs you should get a steady flash or blink out of it (roughly 1-2 per second). Then reconnect one of the pump wires and connect the test light between the disconnected wire and the empty terminal on the pump, the light should do the same thing.
If you don't get a blink on test one the points in the combustion motor need cleaning, if you get a light for test 1 but nothing for test 2 the pump coil is bad. Another test is apply 12V to the pump terminals, you should get a click and a tiny spark every time you touch the wire to the terminal (best to do this with the pump on the bench).
Sounds like that ones really glued shut with bad gas, more soaking and tapping, methyl hydrate softens bad gas fast BTW.
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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I was wrong. The pump tests fine. So now I am lost as what to do.
The pump worked fine about 2 years ago and then last fall it wouldnt start up. I decided to dig in to it trhis deeper the other day. I pulled off the entire heater and guess what? A mouse house. I cleaned all the crap and insulation out visually inspected everything and istalled. Still no volts to the pump.
What I have tested. All fuses are good. With the heater lever slid over the blower relay switchs on, the combustion blower turns on, (points have been cleaned), the glowplug ignites, the circultion blower turns on, and still no power to the pump.
In the bentley it shows individual relays in holder for ..... fuel pump. Are these in the back of the fuse panel and which one is it?
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grandpa pete
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
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did you check the thermo coupler?
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busdaddy
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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well that is where I am at now. I didnt realize that it had two. I have the blower off and I can not get to the fuel pump points. The manuals that you posted and all the others I come across show a different blower. Im trying to get the fan off of the shaft but the set screw is really set. Back to the garage to work!
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bigbore
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Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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sometimes getting that fan off can be tuff don't break it. as far as I know the older ones (like in my 71) have a set of points in the pump and the blower the later ones with a small round pump have one set of points in the blower.
I may have this wrong I have to reread the manuel its been some time but if the plug is firing then the points in the blower must be working thats where it gets it signal from the points in the fuel pump are just to make the pump work.
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Mulcheese
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Maple Grove, Mn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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HEAT, GLORIOUS HEAT!!!!!!!!
It is now working. That is exactly what it was. The fuel pump points were double the gab that they should have been. How they got so far out is a mystery. The set screw was sure tight. Put on a little PB blaster and let it soak and it came out, fan off and pull the motor out, and there were the points. Set them, install, and the pump started pulsing. When it fired up there was no smoke, must be a good mixture!!
Thanks guys!
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| bigbore wrote: |
sometimes getting that fan off can be tuff don't break it. as far as I know the older ones (like in my 71) have a set of points in the pump and the blower the later ones with a small round pump have one set of points in the blower.
I may have this wrong I have to reread the manuel its been some time but if the plug is firing then the points in the blower must be working thats where it gets it signal from the points in the fuel pump are just to make the pump work. |
Correct, for pre 72 models, the points in the blower run the ignition coil and the pump has it's own points inside. But in 72 Eberspacher changed to the metering pump system eliminating all the extra fuel regulators, shutoff valves and diaphragms. The new pump is a simple solenoid that pumps a drop of gas with each cycle (adjustable) and to run it there's a bonus set of timer points driven by a worm gear cam on the hot end of the combustion motor. Dirt simple and almost bulletproof.
Good to hear you beat it Mulcheese, if you disturbed the cylinder on the end of the pump (big 17mm locknut holding it) you'll want to do a volume test to make sure you don't burn out the combustion chamber or melt the overheat switch, a large graduated syringe from the local pharmacy works good for this test. If you didn't then don't worry and enjoy your warm bus.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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bigbore
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Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I have only really messed with the pre 72 heaters Iam rebuilding one for my 71 now it came with a dealer installed one but it was missing when I got the bus. it has taken sometime to find the proper rubber to rebuild the reg and fuel pump the diagrams were hard as a rock and others I have gotten were the same. all my searches came up with no replacement rubbers so make new ones is the only answer I guess. the funny thing is the stock heat has been working so well in this bus even at -0 f I just haven't been in a hurry to get in and running.
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