Problem With Timing...won't stay timed (longish)..Fixed it!

deathman68 · Last edited by deathman68 on Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hello again all,

Here's the deal: a couple weeks back, I installed a pertronix unit in my '76 efi 2.0L bus. Before installing it, I checked my timing and idle and all was good at 7.5 degrees BTDC. I then installed the pertronix, retimed and drove home and she felt sluggish.

Fast forward to today. I brought my bus back out to where I can work on it and was noticing that it was missing at high rpms. I pulled the dist cap to take a look and double check the air gap of the pertronix...checked in fine at slightly over 0.030". That's when I noticed that one of the screws holding the vacuum can to the distributor was missing. I dug around and found the replacement screw (in spare parts) and replaced it, and then checked idle.

The bus was idling way low according to my dwell/tach (400rpm). I turned the idle screw on my efi out until I achieved 850 rpms. I then reset the timing to 7.5 BTDC. I gave the car some gas and the timing stayed up around 12 degrees without falling to 7.5 degrees again. So I rechecked idle (it was good) and reset timing to 7.5 degrees. Blipped the throttle and again it stuck around 12 degrees (advanced) and the idle increased. I then reset timing one last time, blipped the throttle, and all was well...it returned to 7.5 degrees. I turned the bus off, and then turned it back on and noted my idle was around 400rpm....WTF??? Of course my timing was way retarded b/c the idle wasn't to spec.

What could be causing this? I checked to make sure that the advance mechanism was working and it seemed to be (didn't seem to be hanging up on anything). So what would cause the bus to idle lower after I turn it off? Could it be the pertronix or something in the efi?

I'm going to replace the points/condensor tomorrow to see if that helps. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Jeff

Tram · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject:

I'd remove the distributor, and clean/ lube it really well. It sounds like the breaker plate isn't returning. Is the timing mark steady at 7,5 when you set it, or does the mark seem to "wobble" back and forth? I also wonder if something on your conversion might not be hanging up on a screw or something.
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deathman68 · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject:

I'd rather not remove the dist if I can help it (especially don't want to risk losing that washer down there). The timing mark is steady at 7.5 and she idles/runs like a champ. It's only after I blip the throttle that it hangs up and stays there. Why when I turn it off and turn it back on would the idle drop to below where it started?

Tram · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:

deathman68 · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:03 am Post subject:

This seems quite ironic..found a post that I missed on an earlier search: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194061&highlight=pertronix+timing

Same problem I'm describing. I'm going to check that grommet/wire tension to make sure it's not causing the unit to bind up. I'll report back results tonight.

thanks again everyone,
Jeff

vdubyah73 · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:36 am Post subject:

May be worth checking the throttle linkage for sticking as well, it's happened to me in the past. It makes sense to think a problem may be related to the last thing done, but don't rule out everything else.

Bill
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VWLover77 · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:33 am Post subject:

Randy in Maine · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:43 am Post subject:

adn when you get it out, clean off the crud that is either sticking to the pivot plate or gumming up the centrifical advance weights.

Bosch distributor grease only please.

Mr. Loaf · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: Timing

Just a thought, are you timing it with the vacuum line disconnected? I too think that you have something binding inside the distributor and it should be cleaned and lightly oiled.
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deathman68 · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:45 am Post subject:

Forgot to mention that I did set timing with the vacuum hose disconnected/plugged.

Sounds like the forum is correct as usual and that I do have something binding up inside the dist. I will check it out today to make sure that the pertronix wires aren't my culprit. Otherwise, I'll plan to pull out the dist and clean it.

thanks everyone for the tips. I'll let you know what I come up with.

- Jeff

Randy in Maine · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:48 am Post subject:

No oil please, Bosch distributor grease.

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=5700002005

deathman68 · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: Faulty Pertronix

Alright ladies and gents....the culprit: THE PERTRONIX!!!!

I removed the dist cap, slackened the wires and checked the timing. It was still hanging up after blipping the throttle. I then removed the dist, cleaned it well, oiled it up (read the post too late to use grease) and put it back. Set idle and timed everthing to 7.5. Blipped the gas and she stayed very advanced again. I then removed the dist once more, checked the vacuum can for function (while I was at it), replaced the original points/condensor and reinstalled. She fired right up and I timed the engine to 7.5, blipped the throttle and she sank right back down to 7.5 degrees!!!!!!!! I took her for a spin around the block, rechecked timing and idle and all is well in the world! She has lots of power again and she is a happy camper!

Now, I'm pissed. Why? Because this same thing happened the last time I ordered a pertronix. I ordered one up for my '68 mustang. When I went to fire the engine for the first time, flames literally shot out of my carb. Fearing that I had screwed something up on my rebuild, I immediately went back and started checking over the hundreds of pics I took along the way to make sure that the timing marks were aligned. All was well, but I was still getting flames! I then replaced the pertronix with a new set of points, and the car ran beautifully! The moral: I love points and hate pertronix!

I'm currently being trained for DFSS (Design for Six Sigma). This is an engineering practice which is incredibly effective in reducing the number of defective parts in a production environment. I'm beginning to think that Pertronix has no quality control and could use DFSS...maybe I could convince management to let me do my final project on Pertronix. END RANT......NOW.

thanks for the great advice,
Jeff

Tram · Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Faulty Pertronix


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