Fire Suppression Systems

[The Sage]

Based on the thread that Brick started about his bus burn down, I did some research...

You can build a fire surppression system for about $300. Is it over kill?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advcat.asp?CategoryID=FIRESYSTEMS

http://www.purplepatchmotorsports.com/firesuppprod01.htm
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[MopedMan]

If it could be fit to a bus and would work properly $200 would be a small price to pay compared to losing your bus.

[sailorkh]

After reading GreenBrick's post about his bus, and having had a bug flame out on me ages ago, I was thinking of something along these lines too. Even though I make it a habit of changing the fuel lines every year, things still can happen and a handheld extinguisher will only go so far. One of the foam systems with a pull handle up forward would be ideal, and if you don't have a spare battery or a heater, the extinguisher unit might fit on the right side of the engine compartment. Worth thinking about.
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Kris
1971 Deluxe
1978 Westfalia

[Glenn]

Just get a 2.5lb bottle and replace the fuel hose and use a quality filter.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[NO_H2O]

I have installed the SafeCraft system in customer cars. It is a very nice system and they start at $330 from Summit Racing.

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NO_H2O

www.volksport.net
www.dtmengineering.com

[Rocknrod]

I've been thinking a fire retardant blanket held above the engine with plastic clips would be a good addition. That and ditching the oil soaked plastic bagged insulation.
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1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My!

[Wildthings]

I have been toying with the idea of intentionally burning my old van to see if my using mostly steel fuel lines will effectively stop or lessen a fire. Need to find enough old junk parts to give it the resemblance of a running rig again first. Would need to come up with a pile of junk parts to do it: Junk fuel pump, filter, carb, and a core engine and tranny.

It would be neat to let it burn on its own for several minutes and then see what it took to put it out.

Lots of problems with burning it though, polution laws, fire codes, available time, and two decades of ownership all work against lighting the match. Particuarly the part of burning up my old friend doesn't do much for my karma.

[Blaize]

Actually, much as I am sure you are kidding, let me tell you a story. Many years ago, before I was drawn into vw's, I remember leaving a parking lot and there was a splitwindow on fire at the exit. The fire dept. was there, and they were spraying water into the interior of the car and on the ground around it, but not really much on the engine. Now I was about 16 so we stopped and watched it all, and after it finally did go out we asked the firemen why they didnt attack the engine fire at the engine. He tells me that the case is magnesuim, and once it lights (Admittedly that takes about 2k degrees so it needs a couple of min. to get there) they have nothing that will put it out. So they let the engine burn out and then put out whats left

[VolksFire]

[Wildthings]

Okay, if we are going to tell VW fire stories I have a fine one. Way back when I first bought my first bus I had no idea that T4 engines were not magnesium like T1 engines. As the original engine case was wallowed out beyond repair I decided to toss it on a pyre at a large gathering, figuring that the magnesium would light up the night. I was quite disappointed to find out it did not flare up as expected. However about a half hour later my engine became the life of the party when the molten aluminium ran out from the fire and caught several partiers shoes on fire. I must say that I was not very popular at that point.

[WestyPop]

IIRC CO2 extinguishers DO put out Class D fires. Those units are more expensive and usually are cumbersome to carry in a mid-size vehicle.

Wildthings- if you could fab up a test rig (electric pump, small fuel tank, lines, wiring, etc.), one part with braided fuel lines, and the other with "mostly steel" lines, you might find a local fire agency that would test the setup for you, as part of their training drill routine, while you make a movie of the process. No pollution fines, fire codes broken, or dirty looks, and you could write your entire cost off your taxes as a donation to a public services agency. Fire suppression agencies never stop running drills; you'd be surprised at the stuff they test, just to try to be ready for any possible emergency.

FWIW I did donate a car to a fire department to run post & door 'removal' drills, and later torch off-then-extinguish (about 20 times in all)! I felt good about helping to facilitate the training, but I couldn't do that to any of my VDubs. It's a personal thing.

J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others)

[Glenn]

You guys crack me up. Nothing like a pound of cure for a ounce of problem.

99% of fires are due to lack of proper maintenance.

Just maintain your fuel system and carry a fire extinguisher.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

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[Blaubus]

glen is right to some extent, but while incidents are rare when properly maintained, the consequenses are severe. that makes some what costly methods worth it for the reason that in the 1% case, where your properly maintained ride lites up, the extinguisher might not do the job in time. that is what gave rise to this suppression system talk. pretty reasonable if you ask me, of course it depends on the value of your bus- a well restored bus has a real value to its owner of 20K... 225 isnt too much to pay.

[Glenn]

I've put out over a dozen car fires over the years and if a 2.5lb bottle coundn't do the job, the car was already too far gone.

10 years ago I had the right air cleaner on my car ignite. I put t out with a 1lb bottle and only used half of it.

Recently a friend is building Superformance Cobras and the customers are opting for a automatic fire extinguisher. It's just a standard 2.5lb bottle with a heat sensitive head like that used on a building wire fire system. You just mount it in the engine compartment and if it senses a fire it will go off.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

[The Sage]

Glenn,

Can you point me to a site for the "automatic fire extinguisher" ?
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[Jeff Geisen]

... I will stand with Glenn, y'all "crack me up". Do your basic maintenance, and keep the extinguisher right behind the driver's seat. I would rather maintain the fuel delivery system than some fire supression system that may or may not work anyway.

Why put a bandage on your knee for an injured elbow?
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I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5

‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab

[Redd73]

seriously.

im replacing all my fuel lines and filters this week. im writing down the date and will replace them all again a year from now. i am also in the process of writing up a checklist of things to go over before any long road trips.

as far as the fuel system goes heres what i will be doing:

once weekly check of all fuel lines and connections. only takes a few minutes.

when on road trips each morning fire her up and check all the lines for any leaks once there is pressure in the system.

fire extinguisher behind my seat and if it fits one behind the passenger seat or in the back bay.

ALWAYS be sure to keep side door, back door, and engine bay door UNLOCKED when out driving. it only takes a minute to lock them all once you stop and then unlock them before you start driving again.


With simple precautions there shouldnt be any reason to be paranoid or worried about your bus burning. There is always the possibility of catastrophe but Im willing to bet that each time you get that bus out on the road that the odds of your bus being totalled by some jackass driver are exponentially greater than it ever catching fire due to the fuel system as long as you are vigilant in taking care of your fuel system.
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"...theres nowhere to go but everywhere." - Kerouac

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73 Westy 2000cc w/dual solex (engine code GE) + aftermarket AC

[VWBusrepairman]

[Wildthings]

I made changes on my original van long ago because I believed that the VW system was inherently dangerous compared to other vehicles out there, with the chance of a fire becoming catastrophic being much much higher. On other vehicles I own I have been able to remove any rubber tubing that PO's have added on top of the engine between the fuel pump and carbs and go back to the original steel lines, but VW has rubber everywhere from the factory, plus the tank gravity feeds to the top of the engine, not an easy fix.

Just maintaining the fuel system is not enough to prevent all van fires. Years ago I stripped a brand new master cylinder from a van that had just burnt. Having install the MC on my prized van I quickly found what had caused the fire to start, a speck of crud blocking one of the MC ports that caused the rear brakes to drag lightly. This master cylinder almost did my van in as well, the brake drag was light enough at first not to be real noticable but a dozen mile down the road the brakes tightened all at once and the smoke began to roll. My brakes were firecracker hot and I had to crack a rear brake line to drive it home.

All new well maintained rubber fuel line would not have stopped that doner van from catching fire, but steel tubing might have limited it and a fire suppression system might have put it out.

[The Sage]

Tremendous,

As someone who likes driving my bus 10 - 14 hours at a crack, I have replaced my hoses, I am using the best clamps available, I even have FI...

But why the hell care if I want to do more?

Brick recently did all these things didn't he?


It's my money why not give it a try?
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