Baywindow Bus Fires... Scary!

[LuckyMonkeyGarage]

Link


It's amazing how hard it is to put out
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[busdaddy]

That'll buff out, except where the bombadero went at it with the bar to get the decklid open from the top .

Gas burns good, change those vintage lines and carry a fire extinguisher.
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[66busman]

That was even one of those odd Brazilian bays w/ the split-type cargo doors and engine vents. That tells me that it was old(late 70's), and that it had bad fuel lines. Do what busdaddy said, and you should be fine.
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'66 SO-42
'73 Bay
'75 Type 181

[TJC]

Makes one think, doesn't it. I agree, check ALL of the fuel lines and connections, as well as electrical connections that could arc and cause a spark. If an electric fuel pump is used, make sure that it is wired into a circuit that will "kill" it when the engine stops even if the ignition is still on.
Consider an on-board fire suppression system, as well as a fire extinguisher.
Last but not least, BE SAFE, don't be a hero and try to put the fire out if it starts to get out of control...get your family, friends and yourself out of the way and let it burn...it can be replaced!

[onion456]

lurking behind your firewall...

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'76 Sage Green Westy 2.0 FI
'76 Creamsicle 7-passenger 2.0 CS FI
'85 Tan Westy

[gmag69]

That poor Panel. I had to wipe a tear from my eye after watching that.
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Check out my Westy resto. thread.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=230285

[volkstypeone]

love the early split cargo doors.
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Hmm.. looking for type 181

[Millennium Falcon]

Yeah, I saw that video a month or so ago and left a comment on youtube.

Too bad the bus went up in flames, but the guy with the fire extinguisher was useless. I still think the bus could have been saved if he aimed it at the fire itself and did not waste his time spraying the pavement and the side of the bus. ('')

Always unlock the engine hatch before driving around, just in case.

Cheers.
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"Don't worry, she'll hold together . . . You hear me, baby? Hold together!" -Han to the Falcon

1972 White Campmobile
1700 cc Type IV
Dual Solex 34 PDSIT2/3

[TJC]

Sorry folks, but I feel I'd be remiss unless I pointed out a couple of things about this type of fire. First I know everybody realizes that fire requires some type of fuel, in this case gasoline, and oxygen, in order to burn effectively.
Judging by the amount of smoke coming from the vehicle PRIOR to any attempt to putting it out, the fire was well under way. Also, fire extinquishing products are primarily designed to remove the oxygen component from the equation to put out the fire.
Hand held fire extinquishers are designed to be effective when aimed at the base of the fire to allow the chemical to "sweep" around and somewhat above it so the available amount of oxygen is reduced and the fire is hopefully put out. As we all know, our buses are designed to have a sealed engine compartment from the bottom side to aid in cooling. Had this been another type of vehicle with an open bottom engine bay, the fellows who tried to put the fire out by shooting at the base of the fire may have had success. However that was not the case, and the fire was put out only when great amounts of water were used. To illustrate the intensity of a fire in a bus, study the fireman who is dousing the side air vents with water. Just when he thinks the fire is out, i.e. no flames at the vent, and he stops spraying the vent area, oxygen is re-introduced and the flames come shooting back out. A word of caution is relevant here. If your bus is on fire from the engine compartment, do you really want to open the rear door and introduce a nice clean fresh shot of fire's favorite fuel...oxygen?
Opinion...if an engine fire in your bus can't be extinquished by you within 15 to 20 seconds with a hand held extinquisher, it's probably too late to save it, get away and try to get professional fire fighting help.

[udidwht]

You want to shoot down the intake vents on the Bays. It will smother the fire out. Do not open the engine lid. You will only flood the compartment with fresh oxygen.

I have accomplished this first hand on an individuals bus approximately 10 years ago and it worked great. His fire started as a result of a carb plug that vibrated loose over time. Remember, JB Weld those plugs in place.

In response to the photo posted earlier of one of the vent lines. That particular vent line is one of the least likely of all to cause a fire. The one that normally causes the fire is tucked up between the spare wheel well and exterior panel of the bus.

[Millennium Falcon]

If I was having an engine fire I would not hesitate to open the engine hatch. The engine compartment is not even close to being air-tight, or even water-tight, so it is not going to burst into flames.So the fire in my compartment is most likely already drawing and burning 100% of the oxygen it needs, even with a properly sealed engine compartment. That is how the fire started in the first place.

Think of an air-tight wood stove, you really have to dampen the controls closed to have an effect on the fire, and opening them a-little-or-a-lot will have it burning at 100% anyway.

Hopefully we do not have any fires anytime soon.
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"Don't worry, she'll hold together . . . You hear me, baby? Hold together!" -Han to the Falcon

1972 White Campmobile
1700 cc Type IV
Dual Solex 34 PDSIT2/3

[Duncwarw]

I wonder how hot the engine room gets? Surely not over 150F?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=5023

A fuel cutoff solenoid at the tank would probably make a huge difference as well and cheap enough too.
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“To find yourself, think for yourself”
Socrates, 470 BC - 399 BC

[Wildthings]

My guess is that it would get well over 155 on a hot soak. Not likely while running though.

[udidwht]

[THEFUNK]

"It can't happen here"

I was "fortunate" two weeks ago to go up in flames right in front of my house. Anyone who's had this happen will tell you that the brightness of a fuel fire is comparable to a set of strong headlights behind you. Took about 5 seconds to realize what was happening, 15 seconds running through house realizing I didn't own an extinguisher, another 15 seconds stringing the garden hose around the side of the house (BARELY long enough). After pushing THEFUNK out of the burning puddle of fuel, the fire was out in another 30 seconds. By then the neighbors heard me cursing and ran out with a fire extinguisher (and a flask full of whisky) to make sure it was done.

Then spent a few minutes rolling around on the ground thinking about all of the postings I had read on TheSamba about old fuel lines.

Results?
Severed fuel lines (obvi)
Melted fuel filter
Melted coil
Melted distributor cap
Melted ignition wires
Melted spark plug wires
Numerous embarassing "My car caught on fire. Come pick me up." phone calls
Missed planned trip to AllGood in W.Va to see Bob Weir.

BusDepot and JCWhitney get A+ for speed of parts delivery. (BusDepot didn't "forget to ship" like the last order I placed )
NAPA didn't even give me the option of expedited shipping.)

Van runs now. Gonna set the timing with my buddy this afternoon.

[Duncwarw]

Good for you getting it out so fast.

You've reminded me to find a fuel shut off solenoid.
Then it would only have what's in the line and the bowl (I only have 1 carb ) to burn.

What say you fire guys? Obviously depriving the fire of a potentially full tank of fuel would limit the damage but how much damage do you suspect could be done with what's in the line and carb?
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“To find yourself, think for yourself”
Socrates, 470 BC - 399 BC

[TJC]

Did various searches this morning, and by googling "vehicle fires" came up with a lot of info from government agencies, fire departments, insurance companies, etc.
Some things to consider:

Vehicle fires can reach 1500 degrees F
Toxic fumes are created from the materials used in manufacture
VW cases (early) have a fair amount of magnesium (difficult to extinguish)
Fuel tank internal pressure rises with heat
SOP for firefighters includes full protective gear as well as intense training in regards to the particular dangers of vehicle fires
Battery poses a danger
Water may spread the fire, unless there is enough of it (One fire department training outline asks the question if 500 gallons of water will be enough to extinquish the fire)

And the list goes on.

[Daddylolo]

My experience: Fuel filters between gas pump and carbs is one of the major causes, so are bad wires to carbs. Dont forget also that magnesium carters melt untill the end.

Air cooled engines don't run as cool as that, so double check gas tubes if you run dayly.

Have a safe cool driving.

[udidwht]

[Randy in Maine]

Not a VW, but check out this guy who was using waste oil with 10% waste gasoline to heat his shop in his waste oil burner. Shop and attached house burned to the ground..