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Bug53
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Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 725
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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 Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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I have heard mixed opinions, and mixed techniques on how to set up and balance Kadrons.
My thoughts would be to block the balance tube (if used at all), disconnect the linkage on the non-dominant carburetor, balance them with a Uni-syn or Snail.
After that I would attach the linkage back on the slave carb. with no resistance, and open up the balance tube.
When is the tube not needed?
Is it ever needed? |
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VW_Jimbo 
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 11075
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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Balance tube made a measurable difference on a semi stock 1600 with Kadrons.
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 725
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Balance tube made a measurable difference on a semi stock 1600 with Kadrons. |
Did you do your set up and sync with it pinched or with it open? |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27634
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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If the cam duration is over about 240 at .050, it may perform better without the balance tube.
But if you just have a stock cam, or mild "rv" "cheater" ect, then I think you will find the balance tube helps. |
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oprn
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Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14671
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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I don't know what cam came in my 1600DP, it had a Engle cams sticker on the fan shroud but stickers are cheaper than cams. To me it ran like a stock cam. Once I did a detailed carb balance I found that the balance tube made no difference at all so I left it off and plugged the holes.
Adding a thermostat and flaps did more for the way it ran and idled than the balance tube did.
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Ohio Tom
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Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1662
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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You'll know if the tube is required or not by how many cylinders are hitting at idle.
Dual single barrel carbs suffer from this phenomenon.
If you are idling on 1 and 3 only, then adding the tube can help 2 and 4 participate in the idle.
Personally, this is an issue on every set I have ever seen on a VW motor.
They just don't work well at idle.
As a result, they sound funny and and idle on 2 cyls.
They have flat spot when opening the throttles where the other 2 cyls pick up.
I won't use them for that reason.
Most folks hate single IDF's..
I hate dual singles..... |
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Lingwendil
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Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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I found the 110 cam'd 1776 with steel manifolds I ran them on idled better *without* the tube, but the 1600 withsteel manifolds and stock cam I ran them on idled better *with* the tube. My current 1776 with aluminum manifolds (with the split opened up further down the plenum area) runs well enough without the tube I have no desire to run one. Off-idle throttle response seems better with smaller/no tube as well in previous experience.
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7811
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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| Ohio Tom wrote: |
You'll know if the tube is required or not by how many cylinders are hitting at idle.
Dual single barrel carbs suffer from this phenomenon.
If you are idling on 1 and 3 only, then adding the tube can help 2 and 4 participate in the idle.
Personally, this is an issue on every set I have ever seen on a VW motor.
They just don't work well at idle.
As a result, they sound funny and and idle on 2 cyls.
They have flat spot when opening the throttles where the other 2 cyls pick up.
I won't use them for that reason.
Most folks hate single IDF's..
I hate dual singles..... |
The issues you refer to with dual sgl´s can all be remedied, - to an extent. With a centermount IDF you are in for a real challenge to get it even reasonably right.
The balance tube thing. - Well, I don´t think there is a clear answer to that question. Some engine combo´s like the tube, some don´t. Part of the reason is that the balance tube is hooked up to the manifold in the wrong positition. If it should do any real good it should be hooked up to runner 1 & 3. And if you really want to chase idle stability you should hook up runner 2 & 4. AND, the connection should be no more than 2/3 up the runner and 1/4 of the runner lenght away from the divider. The size of the balance tube(s) is dictated by the engine. Not necessarily displacement. Cam overlap and intake vacum plays a larger role.
One positive aspect with 1 or two balance tubes apart from a potentially better idle is, that if the engine can exploit it you can actually gain both some midrange torque, but also pick up 3-5 hp on top if the venturi size is restricting the engine.
While this - is - relatively new knowledge (for me at least) when I did tests with my new Kadron stacks to fit inside the stock type air cleaners, I found that when we had the stacks on "bad" cammed engines (read unprecise grinds and also with too much overlap) the off idle response was noticeably better. This doesnt really make sense initially, but when we began investigating it we found that "bad" cammed engines typically spat quite a bit of fuel out of the carb when you opened the butterfly, and the stack simply held more fuel "in place" so to speak, so the engine sucked it in during the next intake stroke.
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Lo Cash John
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Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2273
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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I find the balance tube VERY useful. If the linkage is slightly off, the carbs will remain balanced and not run crappy. I actually modify the manifolds to use a balance tube (hose actually) with a 1/2" or 5/8" inside diameter.
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 11075
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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| Bug53 wrote: |
| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| Balance tube made a measurable difference on a semi stock 1600 with Kadrons. |
Did you do your set up and sync with it pinched or with it open? |
The tube was open. Full communication between the manifolds.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Lo Cash John
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2273
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Kadron Balance Tube - Yes or No? |
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When syncing the carbs, always pinch off the balance tube. Get the carbs synced as close as possible, then un-pinch the balance tube. The balance tube can now help balance vacuum levels from one manifold to the other.
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More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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