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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13955
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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 Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject: Bad Lifters Look |
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Look at these lifters They are bad and had to TEAR  Down the engine after about 2 hrs of run time. Sux to be me.
Replacing the all lifters, all bearing, cam, oil cooler. yada yada yada.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=201055
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Tiny Troll
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Poverty Holler, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bad Lifters Look |
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Man that would piss ya off.....how much did the crank chew on the pieces ?
later, tiny troll |
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RIS
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 3044
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
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steel buggin
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2003
Posts: 415
Location: Arcadia,Ca
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| That's called a bad break in you should of run the engine for 20min at 2500 rpm without letting it Idle and this could of all been avoided.Good luck next time |
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mharney
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8353
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| That's called SCAT lifters. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| steel buggin wrote: |
| That's called a bad break in you should of run the engine for 20min at 2500 rpm without letting it Idle and this could of all been avoided.Good luck next time |
I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I have seen many, many engines taken apart that had improper break in and the consequence that I've seen is premature wear on the cam and lifters. As in, the lifters already need to be ground because they lost their dome and/or a lobe is already worn down on the cam so bad that it is either junk or needs to be reground. It would be nice if the author could tell us what kind of lifters those are and what cam was used. |
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turboblue
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2003
Posts: 4216
Location: Central Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| steel buggin wrote: |
| That's called a bad break in you should of run the engine for 20min at 2500 rpm without letting it Idle and this could of all been avoided.Good luck next time |
I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I have seen many, many engines taken apart that had improper break in and the consequence that I've seen is premature wear on the cam and lifters. As in, the lifters already need to be ground because they lost their dome and/or a lobe is already worn down on the cam so bad that it is either junk or needs to be reground. It would be nice if the author could tell us what kind of lifters those are and what cam was used. |
Sounds like you two are agreeing to me. 
You both attribute the problem to an improper break-in procedure.
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Gary
Turbo VW Sand Drag Buggy
"If you don't run into the Devil every once in awhile, you must be going in the same direction!" |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, but something else had to happen to break the one. After thinking a little more, it looks as if the thing was running with no lubrication, if that REALLY happened in 2 hours. I'll change my final answer to NO break in with no lubrication. |
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Even having proper breakin' procedures will not guarantee lifters going south like that. More than likely scat lifters will "very seldom" fail like that during initial breakin'.
If your lifter bores on your engine case are out of spec that problem may occur with almost any lifter. So if you have ceramic lifters and by some chance your sleeved bores are out of spec thats a situation for even a ceramic lifter to break and destroy your internals.
Scats will usually look great for the first while. Its the several thousand miles you'll have to watch for. This is where people say "my scat lifters are still perfect and I have 5000+ miles on" This is where its called blind faith and ignorant is bliss. If you dont have pits and craters in those lifters after that many miles you should buy a lottery ticket.
Guys breaking with dual k800 springs with scats and have great breakin. Its just luck and lifters spin that you should be praying for.
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No more time for VW's....... |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13955
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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More Info
I used a scat c-25 cam and the machinist who sold me the new cam, large valve heads, did the case machine work and sold me reground stock lifters.
I assissted in assembly of the engine, new engine lube on everything, oil in the motor....plugs out cranked on it watched the oil pressure gauge as well...then plugs in started it ran it at 1800 RPM for 20 minutes.
I hope this does not happen the second time.
As it is I am considering selling some of my fire arms to pay for stuff for the motor.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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randy2
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2002
Posts: 220
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yep reground lifters been there done that. I had the same results.
I dont use reground lifters any more, dont use scat lifter becouse I have seen first hand the pitting within 3000 miles of use. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| randy2 wrote: |
Yep reground lifters been there done that. I had the same results.
I dont use reground lifters any more, dont use scat lifter becouse I have seen first hand the pitting within 3000 miles of use. |
That did NOT happen because they were reground lifters. I have used 1000's of reground lifters and NEVER seen that happen. Unless those lifters were at the end of their lives and were too thin to use. Any lifter that doesn't still have a shoulder on it, I throw in the garbage. I don't have much of an opinion on Scat lifters as I have only used them a few times. |
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danimal
Banned
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 587
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| gt1953 wrote: |
| plugs out cranked on it watched the oil pressure gauge as well...then plugs in started it ran it at 1800 RPM for 20 minutes. |
ideally you would have taken the rocker arms off during the cranking for oil pressure phase... also use gm o.e.s. or similar in the oil.
the really bad lifter looked like it wasn't rotating in the bore at all... who reground 'em? did they have the proper angle on the face of the lifter? be sure and check for coil bind as well.
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mharney
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Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8353
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I think it happens a lot more often due to coil bind than people let on. How many times have you heard people ask if they can run 1.25's or 1.4's with a 120 cam, or something similar? And additives do help during break in. I would hope that given the opportunity to harden on break-in, one wouldn't need any more additives.
Try try again. |
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