Conflicting timing info...which setup should I use?

[Tox56]

How I know which settings are correct from oldvolkshome posted below?...my bugs not running well at the moment but either 0 tdc and 7.5 btc seem to affect how it is running so how do I know which is right when I am using a 'VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021 Distributor' on a 1500 manual engine that was not originally fitted to my Beetle as the PO put it into my 56 Oval?

I am running a 'Solex 30 Pict-1 VW105-1 (with power fuel circuit) in conjunction with this setup.

Pulley notches cannot be trusted either as it is not the original pulley I am led to believe after having to locate tdc myself using and old spark plug with a bolt through it to get it smack on.

Beetle 1966-1967 * 1300/1500

Distributor: VW 113-905-205K/L, Bosch 0231 137 009/010 > 315-905-205B, 0231 137 031
Can Use: VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021, 113-905-205T, 0231 137 035 or 036
Points: 01 009
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 111-905-227B, Bosch 1237 110 139
(Note: Order 01 013 Points when using this Plate Assy)
Condensor: 02 007 - Note: If equipped w/AC use 02 069
Rotor: 04 006
Cap: 03 001
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 6 Volt - 00 001, 12 Volt - 00 015
Blue Coil: 6 Volt - 00 016, 12 Volt - 00 012
Vacuum Can: 07 017
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 24-28deg @ 3.2 In. Hg

Beetle 1968 * 1500 Man Trans

Distributor: VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021
Can Use: VW 113-905-205T, Bosch 0231 137 035 or 036
Replacement: VW 111-905-205AA, Bosch 0231 137 039
Points: 01 013
Points Replacement Plate Assy: VW 111-905-227B, Bosch 1237 110 139
Condensor: 02 007 - Note: If equipped w/AC use 02 069
Rotor: 04 006 (Replacement uses 04 033)
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Cap: 03 001 (Replacement uses 03 010)
Coil: 00 015 (Blue Coil: 00 012)
Vacuum Can: 07 024 (Replacement uses Bosch 1237 121 400)
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 0deg TDC Static or @800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum (Advance Only): 17-19deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 32-35deg @ 3.2 In. Hg

[sxuxrxf]

Easiest way is to buy or borrow a cheap pulley with degree marks.
This way you can truly see where the marks are.
You can transfer the degrees you want to your stock pulley when you're finished.
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(ignore the X's )

[Tox56]

Yeah I was planning on doing that in all honesty but as it stands one lot of setting on old volks home says 7.5 btc and the other says 0 tdc and I stumped as in which way to go...I'm just keen for a little clarity on what settings I should be using for sure if anyone knows?

[sxuxrxf]

That is weird that it says 7.5* for the 205K/L, but you may also use the 205M/T as a substitute.
While for the 205M/T it says 0*.

I was running at 7.5* with my 205T, by misreading the marks. Thought it was 0*. It started making noises that I didn't like. Got a degreed pulley and put it at 0* and things got better.
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(ignore the X's )

[Tox56]

My pulley is definately marked right now for sure...what are we saying then, where should I be timing then to get mine right as the two groups of setting on oldvolkshome contradict one another for sure?

[glutamodo]

They don't really contradict each other. It's a case of [i]too much information[/0] in that they list several other "can use" distirbutors with different specifications. Yes you can substitute most of the 1965-70 distributors for each other with 30 series carburetors. But in looking at those listings you need to only look at the specifiations of the very first distributor listed.

They also list the full range of possible variation on the advance of the distributors, but in reality the 009/K gives about 25 degrees, so if you time it statically to 7.5 you get about 32 total. The 023/M and 035/T's vacuum canister gives about 32 degrees, so you want to start at TDC.

-Andy

[Tox56]

I see what your saying...so would we say then I should time at 0 TDC then inline with the 1500 68 beetle manual spec then if we are going for the dizzy listed in the first position?

[glutamodo]

The M and the T get timed to TDC (and the K gets timed to 7.5BTDC)

However, it IS possible to mix and match vacuum canisters... so if there's no number stamped on the arm of the vacuum canister for you to cross-reference, then you have to verify total advance with a timing light. You don't want to go much over 32, not unless you are at higher elevtations.

-Andy

[Tox56]

So if I am going to time at TDC then the Vacuum Canister must be numbered '07 024'? I'm not by the car right now so can't check but will do.

[Tox56]

Can you confirm for me I am doing this correctly with the Stroboscopic Timing Light...I am timing at TDC for idle as is correct with my Solex 30 Pict 1 with Power Fuel Circuit Carb and my VW 113-905-205M, Bosch 0231 137 021 Dizzy Setup.

Vacumm Hose on Dizzy is plugged and the carb hose inlet for the Vacumm is also plugged. Timing is then set to TDC with the Strobscopic Timing Light at Idle.

I then re-attach the Vacumm Hose to the Dizzy and Carb and at between 2500rpm - 3500rpm she sits at 32 Degrees Maximum Advance.

Is this correctly set then?

[Culito]

Sounds good. See how it runs and listen for any pinging.
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© CJ Industries, Inc.
'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug

[Tox56]

The bit that was getting me was the timing at idle with the vacumm and carb ports plugged...any then timing the advance at 32 degrees with it connected...thats right though isn't it?

Its just that the 0TDC line moves when i reconnect the vacumm about 10 degrees so the idle is then different then isn't it?

I have a cheeky little backfire/pop every now and again, that would be to rich a mixture would it?

If I can hear pinging what does that mean also?

Finally...do I set the idle speed with the vacumm attached or plugged?

[Culito]

[Tox56]

Can anyone clarify for me...I'm planning on setting again this weekend as I'm not happy with how its running.

Am I timing at idle with the vacum hose disconnected and plugged? (I only ask as when I plug in it advances so doesn't that effectively move my idle timing to being wrong?)

Furhermore, when timing/checking the advance what should be my static rpm rate that I am looking to adjust the timing at to hit 32deg for my 'M' dizzy?

I take it that its best timing at 0deg at the right idle with the strobe light and then hitting ""rpm and just checking it advances according to 32deg?

[glutamodo]

Yes, with an "M", it's TDC for static or hose-disconnected-idle. Then with the hose hooked back up, rev it up until the timing maxes out and that should be around 32°BTDC.
-Andy

[Boom]

[tasb]

In other words there is no such thing as static idle timing. Do as Andy says set the timing at 0 degrees with the engine NOT RUNNIING then increase the RPM gradualy and you should see with the timing light that the spark is advancing until it tops out at no more than 32 degrees BTDC.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

Member# 2059

[Tox56]

Thanks fellas...I didn't know if there was a specific rpm count I should be hitting at 32deg as I have a rev counter on my multimeter so was going to utilise that feature?

[glutamodo]

I seldom bother looking at a tach, I just watch the timing marks as I rev it up and wait for them to stop moving.