Need some advice. Vanagon bucks / shakes / dies when driving.

[Walty87]

Hello wonderful people of the samba! You guys have always been amazing, and I’ve very appreciative of the help and knowledge you all have given me so far.. but here I am once again asking for you help.

Recently had to town the vanagon home after a camping trip to Hearst castle. Thank goodness for triple A!

Some backstory: Before a big trip two trips ago (lol) I took my 84’ 1.9L manual vanagon to a local known vw mechanic here in the Central Valley CA. I noticed a fuel leak whenever I’d fill up on the drivers side of the van off one of the hoses by the front wheel. I had the fuel tank dropped and resealed and all the fuel lines checked and many replaced. Also, I had the driver side rear cv joint replaced as I was told it was going bad when I bought the van (the mechanic I took it to confirmed it needed replacing, so we did). Also, had a new belt put on. Unfortunately during a 2000 miles road trip in the van I noticed the cv was clunking. Sounded like I had a nail in the tire. As speed increases you would hear more clunking / clicking only when accelerating. If I took my foot off the gas and “coasted” no clunking. Also, the new belt I had put on made a loud screeching sound often when the old one didn’t.. The van ran fine though out the whole trip though, but after we got home I took the van back to the mechanic and he replaced or redid the cv and belts for free. No more squealing from the belt and no more clicking from the cv. The fuel tank had no leaks and everything seemed flawless.

Jump to my most recent trip with the breakdown. After almost arriving to our destination I noticed that same clicking noise from the driver cv starting again. Or what I’m assuming was the same issue as before, but all was good. Had a great trip and was cruising home on I-5 at a nice 65mph when the van start bucking / bogging and I was losing power when trying to accelerate. I quickly pulled over to a safe spot off the side of an on-ramp. No overheating. Temp gauge was reading just fine. No red light on temperature light or anything abnormal. I Turned the van off. I took a look underneath the van and saw no leaking fluids on the ground, but noticed a slight oily substance on the bottom of my engine or maybe tranny and a bunch of grease looking stuff by the cv I had replaced twice… Popped open the engine hatch and everything looked normal as far as I could tell. I then started the van. It fired right up and idled with no issue. I could rev the engine to higher rpm’s in neutral. No issue. I put it in first and started resign the motor and just as I’d shift into second the bucking / bogging and loss of power. I called triple A and had to burn my 200 mile tow, but we all got home safety. Been expecting this with this old van! Got the van off the tow truck and decided to see if it was still doing the same thing. It sure was! During that time I broke my accelerator pushrod and my accelerator pedal came off! Lol. Had to order one and finally got it on today.

So let’s skip to today! Van is still doing the same thing. it fired right up. It idles like normal. I can accelerate it neutral to high rpm’s and it seems normal. I will say after a closer look in the driveway it seems like the whole engine is shaking slightly more than it used too? It always shook slightly, but it’s a little more noticeable now. I put it in reverse and don’t notice any issues. Drive down my empty street and first gear is fine. As I approach higher rpm’s to shift into second I get down bogging, but I shift into second and everything is ok. As I’m about to hit third I get big time bucking / bogging / and engine shuts off. I coast to a stop. Turn key off. Van starts right back up. Attempt first gear again but as I hit higher rpm’s it dies. I go to start it and the van won’t start. Or the engine engages for a second then dies. Like a lack of fuel. I was close to home so I start pushing this heavy thing home. Get tired and attempt to start the van after pushing 2 minutes lol and it fired right up. I was able to make it home in first, but the bucking and bogging of the engine was definitely happening.

Things I’ve done:

-I had a spare fuel filter laying around so I put that on. Didn’t fix the issue.

-I know my grounds are good. Double checked those.

-Checked oil. Looks good.

I’ll be honest I’m really a novice when it comes to mechanics. I do have a Bentley, but sometimes it’s like reading a foreign language. I think I’m in over my head on this one lol.

I did crawl under the van today (while changing the fuel filter) and I snapped some pics. Lots of grease near the drive rear cv. From this trip? Or from previous issues with it? I’m not sure. Also, the oily like substance is still on the bottom of the tranny / engine area, but I will say I’ve had nothing leak onto my driveway. My driveway is clean as a whistle. Also, my tranny has always been covered in a smudge of grease or some kinda goopy texture stuff. I was thinking the bottoms of the engine was sprayed with some kind of protective substance at one point? Maybe the oily fluid was melted grease from the cv?

I really was hoping it was the fuel filter because those symptoms seemed spot on from what I was reading. It definitely seems like a lack of fuel, but I could be wrong and it’s obviously not the fuel filter as I’ve replaced it. Maybe fuel pump not engaging? But it idles fine and I can rev engine in driveway in neutral with no issues. If the engine was shot I don’t think it would start and idle fine? If it was cv wouldn’t the van not move at all? Or there would be major clunking noises (I wasn’t hearing any clicking or anything on my test drives today) or something. I’ve also read that this could sound like it’s timing related? I was reading about how to troubleshoot that and will hopefully have a friend come over and help me with that. Maybe tranny? Idk. Still no overheating when idling in the driveway.

Curious what you guys think. Maybe you’ll notice something in the pictures I attach that aren’t the greatest. I will take a video of the van idling tomorrow so you guys can see the shake.

Appreciate your time! Thanks in advance!

While searching around I found this video of a vanagon engine shaking. Again not my engine, but something close for now

https://youtu.be/wVyA581TW5o

The shaking on my engine is definitely less than this, but it’s similar. Like I said I’ll edit this post once I record my engine running. Just throwing it out there and thanks to whoever’s video I stole lol

[Abscate]

Ignition system is the cause of most running woes.

Wiring to distributor, cap, rotor, wires, spark plugs are all annual inspection and maintenance items, when were they last changed?
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[bobhill8]

Couple of things to consider. It is unlikely that the clicking sound, if from the CV's, has anything to do with the poor running, bucking condition. Have you driven through a lot of rain lately? It is a common problem to get water in the fuel from the expansion tanks leaking in the front wheel wells. If this was not addressed when the tank was resealed, you might be getting water in the tank from one or both of those tanks.
Something you can do related to the CV's is get under there and clean them off really well with Simple Green or engine degreaser spray, and then keep an eye on them to see if you are getting leaks or if grease is spraying out. Always easier to find problems on a clean engine/tranny.
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1986 Westy
1971 Squareback

[Walty87]

[calsurf]

Good quality fuel? Water contamination possibly?

[Walty87]

[Walty87]

Here of some videos of the engine shake I was talking about.

https://youtu.be/WK5Z1xgHmHw


https://youtube.com/watch?v=bNdtvbBVxnE&feature=share

[dhaavers]

[Walty87]

[Abscate]

Get a Dremel and make all the brass bits shiny, all that black crud has to go.

The business end of the spark plugs tell you what is going on with the ignition, ie, if you are misfiring due to plugs.

Thst fuel line needs attention before you drive it again. New line, and those toy store hose clamps need to go for proper fuel injection band clamps or oetikers.

This happens otherwise

Bad fuel lines
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[Walty87]

Well I swapped these bad boys out and the van seems to be working just fine. I did put some heet in the tank

[DanHoug]

showing us an engine picture is a bit like chumming the water for sharks... please take the comments as useful!

i see several things that will help you in the long run...
- fuel lines have been mentioned. that's #1 for you.

- you can't "see" anything by looking at a plug wire. you must buy an ohm meter and measure them for resistance. they should be around 5,000 ohms each. i've had sets where i've had to replace them every 3 years. even when they ohm out okay, the insulation can break down and let the sparks out before they get to the plug. if they ohm out okay and you can run your hand along the entire length of each one while the engine is running without getting knocked on your ass, they are good. or you can replace them frequently and not do the ass-kicking.

- you need to wash your engine! you own an antique vehicle and WILL be working on it. a clean engine will make it easier for YOU to maintain it.

- you've "looked at" you engine grounds but they haven't been taken off, polished to shiny brass as Abscate mentioned, treated with either anti-seize or dielectric grease and re-bolted down.

- your cap looks suspiciously generic. to reset the baseline of exactly when it was replaced, buy a new genuine Bosch cap, rotor, plug wires (doesn't have to be Bosch) to go along with your spark plugs. get used to frequent tune-ups that you do yourself. this ain't your 100,000 service interval Civic! when you are doing the cap/rotor, make sure to clean the brown Bakelite top of the ignition coil too.

- your vacuum hose on the fuel pressure regulator should be replaced as the end has lost its stretch.

- even if you just put in new plugs, if you didn't put in the NGK BP6ET tri-electrode plugs you'll have better running with those.

you've spent money on a tow already. laying hands on your engine some more might pre-empt another one. reset things to baselines that you KNOW are true, do the complete tune-up, clean clean clean. you're coming up on the 40th birthday of that vehicle. ain't no power in 'Verse gonna keep that running but your diligence.

shark bite mode off. welcome to the Abyss!
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Californio]

Search "Vanagon syndrome" here, could be that. Caused by a worn sweep on the AFM. The transaxle etc. would have nothing to do with it.
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1987 Syncro Westy/2.0L Tiico

[Walty87]

Curious, this part looks pretty messed up and doesn’t connect well. Am I missing a pin here? are there supposed to be 5 pins? this is on a 1.9 1984 air flow.

Thanks

[Abscate]

There are both 4 and 5 pin versions of the Air flow meter.

Gap on those plugs looks huge, did you feeler gauge them for numbers?
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[Walty87]

Always something!

Was taking what I’m assuming (I love assuming! Haha) is a ground bolt off to clean and inspect the connectors and the lovely little bolt guy snapped on me.

Can I attach those ground connectors to the bolt right above temporarily until I can have a friend get that broken bolt out?

These are all just grounds? To confirm

Thanks

[MarkWard]

If you can remove the other ground bolt next to the one you snapped off, get a slightly longer bolt and all the grounds can share the same bolt. Use some scotch brite or sandpaper to clean the wire eyelets. Inspect the wire crimps at the same time.

It looks like you attempted to remove the bolt without soaking in penetrating oil or applying heat. I’d abandon the broken one at this point. This is one of those tasks that take less time if you take more time.

[Walty87]

I had more time to mess around with the van today...

soooo during this whole process at one point I had changed my air filter. I had to take off the air flow meter plug off and when I reinstalled the airbox i forgot to plug the meter back on. When I went to start the van I noticed it ran like crap, but it was running badly in a way that seemed similar to the bucking / losing power issue i've been having. Obviously I had found I had the plug off and I put it back on and the van would idle great but I would still lose power and the van wasn't really driveable. It would lose enough power at times and just shut off.

Also during the whole ordeal I had a gut feeling that when I would wiggle this air flow meter plug thing that it would improve or worsen my issue. It wasnt a drastic obvious change, but sometimes after wiggling it.. the van wouldn't start or it would run horribly even at idle.

So today for whatever reason I decided to goop hella dielectric geese into this plug. I noticed before there seemed to be some in there (i think at one point in the past like a year ago or more i tried getting it out) to see what it was... lol anyways i gooped up the plug and shoved it on. Side note the plug has always fit, and clips on nicely. Like magic the van is running great right now. Idles great, I can drive it with no bucking or loss of power. I cant believe it.

My ultimate goal is to replace this plug and the air flow meter connector prongs things that go into the plug. Going to do some research to see how to do that. For now I'm going to clean off quite a bit of this grease... I don't want to cause a short and I'm thinking about cutting back the black rubber housing to see if I can get a good look at the wires and connectors on the plug. Maybe something is just cracked or no good there.

overall I have:

-changed Fuel filter
-cleaned grease off bottom of van
-changed spark plugs and even took them off to double check gaps
-changed air filter
-put some "heet" into gas tank
-removed and cleaned all exterior and engine bay grounds (i had the front fuse grounds already cleaned and they still looked shiny)
-took off distributor cap and cleaned the copper inside with a bezzle tool.
-my spark plug distributor wires look like theyre in great shape (i have some new ones on the way along with a new distributor cap and rotor thing inside)

All of those things didn't seem to make a difference or fix the issue. The only thing that seems to have worked was putting greese into the air flow meter plug. I'm assuming that plug is shot or I'll update this post once I peel back that rubber housing and see what the connections look like.

Obviously I'm not 1000% sure the van is fixed. Maybe its just a fluke, but I took it on some errands around my small town today and it was running just fine. Zero issues.

If it's still having issues hopefully the distributor stuff or spark plug wires will be the fix if not it's off to the mechanic it goes because I'd be pushing my limits on my mechanical skills lol.

May have to take it in anyways because I may have a small oil leak at the bottom of the engine that I've possible discovered while doing all of this..

If anyone has read this I appreciate it. Thanks for you time! I'd like to give a big thank you to anyone who's suggested anything so far! I'll keep it updated.

[RawUmber]

Dielectric grease isn't conductive, so there should be no concern about it causing a short.

If you think you may have narrowed the problem down to the AFM/harness connectors, you might also look at the harness connector's receptacles (the counterpart to the AFM pins). Ideally, the gap should be close enough to allow squeezing its pin counterpart, causing all four prongs of the receptacle to make contact with the pin. If the gap is wider than the pin, you can get intermittent contact. Some gap isn't a problem, but too much gap can be.

[Walty87]

Well it must be an intermittent issue. Van randomly dies and randomly starts or doesn’t.

Hahaha.