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jclayc Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006 Posts: 148 Location: SC
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:47 pm Post subject: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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I have a 63 beetle where I welded in a new lower part of the driver’s b pillar. That went ok but it appears that, when I did it, it ended up warping the flat part of the lower rear quarter panel.
I’ve read that the solution is to hammer out the weld so it un-shrinks the metal and stops the puckering but I can’t really get a dolly behind where the pillar meets the quarter panel to do so. I’ve tried working the low spots just like normal low spots but that seems to just chase the high/low spots around.
I guess cutting the inner part of the quarter panel where the door card snaps in (and welding it back in afterward) might give me some room… or should I just stop obsessing over it and skim some filler in there?
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67ctbug Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016 Posts: 3625 Location: CT
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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Stop obsessing and skim it _________________ '67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
mukluk wrote: |
He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5971 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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If the high spots are too high, get a shrinking disc and learn how to use it. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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jclayc Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2006 Posts: 148 Location: SC
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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I thought about the shrinking disc but the issue was caused purely by welding…. Which shrank the metal. You don’t get rid of shrinking by more shrinking right? (Even though I agree my first thought was to shrink that high spot in the middle of the dips) |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9974 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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Curved block of wood and a pry bar from the inside. Take the window out. Reach through the window with one hand and push on the prybar. With the other hand, take a hammer and strike the panel as needed. The high spots!
Once close, filler to finish. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2670 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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I had this exact problem but on the front quarter panel near the fuel filler door. Didn't matter how careful I was welding and cooling in between you still get the dreaded valley where you weld.
I purchased a heavy panel beating spoon that would slip in behind the cavity and give me the ability to pry the panel out and also act as a dolly. The heavier the better.
I bought one locally in Australia but there are plenty of curved spoon dollies available in the US. This one suited the narrow cavity between the outer and inner skins.
https://metalmantools.com.au/product/double-blade-spoon-410mm-long/
Here's one from Eastwood that might do the job. There are plenty of other ones around I'm sure. Of course you can improvise as VW_Jimbo says ands use a pry bar and wood.
https://www.eastwood.com/double-end-s-spoon-nv.html _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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metalchomper Samba Member
Joined: June 27, 2005 Posts: 703 Location: Statesville, NC
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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Here is the link to my thread on one of the replacements I did. I welded it with a torch. I did cut an access in the inner structure so I could work the welds with a hammer and dolly. Had to use my homemade shrinking disc when I got a little overzealous with the hammer and dolly. When finished, I just used my mig to weld the inner access panel back in.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324503&highlight= _________________ Brett
Devil Dog Dubs
I live vicariously through me
'62 Beetle, "Zombie Mojo"
'68 Manx II "Conundrum"
'72 SB "Luftwaffle", 2270 T4
'75 SB Wizard Rodster "Olympias" (Mrs. Metalchomper's car) |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11005
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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You shrink by heating the metal and then rapidly cooling it, I use compressed air others use a wet rag.
I use a stud puller to shrink as it’s more pin point than a disc. Just heat a spot cherry red then blast with compressed air. Works great.
Unless you have hours to expend AND have the skills to beat a 60 year old beat up panel perfectly flat, you will have to fill. I’d say 99.9999 percent of restorations use filler. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2670 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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Braukuche wrote: |
I use a stud puller to shrink as it’s more pin point than a disc. Just heat a spot cherry red then blast with compressed air. Works great. |
Are you saying you use the stud puller without a stud and just heat up the spot? Didn't know you could do that. _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2080 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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I believe that is what he is saying.
To elaborate a bit on what is actually happening during the shrinking process:
It isn't the heating, then rapidly applying cold that is causing the shrink. In fact, applying a wet rag to what was once red hot metal is hardening the area you want to shrink. A rag can be applied, but it is standard practice to allow the spot to cool to where you can just about put your hand on it.
Here is what is actually happening while shrinking: Using a torch, a small area is heated to a point where is becomes near molten. It doesn't necessarily have to be red hot. Heat causes metal to expand and you can see the area rising up like a bubble, proud of the surface. The area surrounding the heated spot is not expanding at the same rate, thereby trapping the molten metal. When the area surrounding area or the heated area is tapped down, the molecules push into one another as they have nowhere to go, which makes the heated portion of the panel thicker. This provides a "shrink". It can make the panel ugly, but that can be planished out.
This is the same thing that is happening when a panel is welded in. The panel fits perfect, perfect gaps, then once welded, the panel tightens up on the weld. If the fit was good prior to welding, only working the weld and heat affected zone should get you back to where the panel is straight again.
Its a fundamental technique to understand if your doing this kind of work. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11005
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rear quarter welding-caused warp |
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viiking wrote: |
Braukuche wrote: |
I use a stud puller to shrink as it’s more pin point than a disc. Just heat a spot cherry red then blast with compressed air. Works great. |
Are you saying you use the stud puller without a stud and just heat up the spot? Didn't know you could do that. |
Yes, no stud. I just heat and then blast with compressed air. You can also heat a spot, hit it with a hammer and then use a dolly and hammer to move the metal toward the center. But you can’t always get a dolly behind a dented area which is why the compressed air works. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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