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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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 Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:36 pm Post subject: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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In the past some talked about using Delrin for a Shift rod bushing. Someone else had this idea and has them for sale now. Nice option, anything is better then the stock one.
https://washburns-metal.myshopify.com/products/high-quality-delrin-shift-rod-bushing
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7617
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3980
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:54 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| I wonder if it will slip on a bus shift rod that has the bend in it? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23017
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:02 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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I think we talked about it a little in the thread about the metal shifter bushing. Delrin should be far better than the original polypropylene. It's tough and slick.
I think I also mentioned that properly molded nylon.....would be ideal. A long time ago, a lot of our factory shift bushings were nylon. They were tough and slick....but....they had a lifespan. After maybe 6-8 years they got the crusty, white/yellow cracking disease ....because back in those days 1960s/early 70s they were using nylon 6. Wrong nylon we know now.
So they went to polypropylene. Tough, very slick....but much less abrasion resistance than nylon and they wore out over time. But they were cheap so no big deal. And since it cannot be easily machined, the molding has to be top notch.
Then cut to 90s and 2000s cheap aftermarket. The molding started getting sloppy. Then some of them got even much cheaper and we started seeing some $2 bushings that were not even polypropylene but were soft polyethylene instead 
Short life span, soft and easily distorted and wore out like mad.
So....in a perfect world.....precision molded nylon 6-6 or better would be the best and last the longest.
But second best in lifespan, abrasion resistance....and able to be precision machined.....is Delrin.
Even better but not complaining.....would be Nylatron (nylon + Molybdenum disulfide) or Delrin 500AF (Delrin +20% Teflon).
Those should be nice bushings!
Ray
Ray |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6244
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:08 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| I wonder if it will slip on a bus shift rod that has the bend in it? |
because its split, I'm sure one could easily pry it open slightly as they are sliding it over the bends.
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drive your split. |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3980
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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I have one of the soft polypropylene now and its about shot. Just ordered one of these
Thx for the heads up Jeff  |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:27 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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74 thing, thanks for bringing up that other shift rod bushing, that one is the 2 piece design, that relys on a constant pressure on one side. It looks like it works fine but kinda lost my interest abit. The red material looks suspiciously like urethane, but who knows. Its always good to see what everyone is coming up with.
Ray, appreciate the very complete vw/industry timeline on plastic/nylon. You never dissapoint. The $2 current offerings are frustrating. This fact is what makes me appreciate folks that sell something better so we dont have to rely on the junk out there. Would Delrin benifit from superlube or anything? Using dry kinda bugs me.
Chris, ditto what Sled said. It will work just fine.
I have one of the bronze bushings in each of my 60 bugs and works great. But the Delrin option seems like a great option too.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 10837
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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From the Washburns Metals part description,
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Recommended to use graphite lubricants' while using this bushing for prolonged life.
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_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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The only reason aftermarket uses Delrin its easy to machine. It has horrible wear property's you can scratch it with your fingernail! Delrin can be set up and made in huge numbers on a CNC lathe with a low paid felon pushing the button.
UHMW is the best you can get but its tough to machine accurately. It Really needs to be Molded. Teflon is good but Virgin Teflon is Big $$$$$ so valuable in fact its remolded in to second hand blends. I've made tons of bushings for custom machines out of UHMW lasts a lifetime it takes an experienced Machinist its more time consuming needs to be made on a Conventional lathe. UHMW changes size with temps and machines different through the day . Its like trying to catch a snake once you have it figured out it changes direction. For our VWs just buy the molded polypropylene bushing use Synthetic wheel bearing grease replace when needed its a cheap wear item. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13535
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
| The only reason aftermarket uses Delrin its easy to machine. It has horrible wear property's ... |
Disagree. Just because it scratches easy doesn't mean it has horrible wear properties. there are many flavors of delrin with different hardness
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
The only reason aftermarket uses Delrin its easy to machine. It has horrible wear property's you can scratch it with your fingernail! Delrin can be set up and made in huge numbers on a CNC lathe with a low paid felon pushing the button.
UHMW is the best you can get but its tough to machine accurately. It Really needs to be Molded. Teflon is good but Virgin Teflon is Big $$$$$ so valuable in fact its remolded in to second hand blends. I've made tons of bushings for custom machines out of UHMW lasts a lifetime it takes an experienced Machinist its more time consuming needs to be made on a Conventional lathe. UHMW changes size with temps and machines different through the day . Its like trying to catch a snake once you have it figured out it changes direction. For our VWs just buy the molded polypropylene bushing use Synthetic wheel bearing grease replace when needed its a cheap wear item. |
It may be a cheap wear item but its not a fun job to replace. I also dont agree about the low paid felon/easy to machine as being the only reasons Delrin is chosen. The current cheap plastic bushings on the market now being sold as "stock" replacemnts would fit low priced labor/easily produced with no thought to quality much more so. The company selling these is a small business that put some thought and care into helping our hobby.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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Delrin has been around for a while 1960s. At some point you have to think someone has tried this before. 30 years later a new generation has the same idea clueless of the past. Its MUCH cheaper now and CNC machines are common. I remember even in the 2000s DuPont Delrin was $$$ its come down since then doesn't make it a Miracle material. How has WASHBURN'S METAL tested these bushings to back up their claim (lasts sustainably longer) is just sales jargon means nothing. Its just a nice money grab 40$. They are suggesting dry lube because dirt will destroy Delrin fast moving it in both directions rather then rotating around a single axis. Delrin is also very stiff something sharp will just cut its way thru unlike UHMW or its cheaper cousin Polypropylene has the amazing ability to flex/stretch then come back so much so its a SOB to machine.
Even if I'm completely wrong.... for 40$ it would have to last 100+ years to justify the cost. My current shift bushing has lasted 40K and that's off-road you know its a dirty mess in that tunnel. I used Mobile 1 Synthetic grease during installation lots of it. It seems like a un-proven solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17551
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
| It seems like a un-proven solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. |
My car has almost 300k miles on it. I replaced the bushing for the first time about 50k miles ago, only because shifting was unreliable when I first put the 5 speed in.
How many hundreds of thousands of miles of testing have those non-standard bushings been subject to?
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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DesertSasquatchXploration
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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I keep thinking about IKEA. They had a pneumatic display simulating the life cycle of a chair.  Here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVRyoz98s7U |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23017
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:59 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
The only reason aftermarket uses Delrin its easy to machine. It has horrible wear property's you can scratch it with your fingernail! Delrin can be set up and made in huge numbers on a CNC lathe with a low paid felon pushing the button.
UHMW is the best you can get but its tough to machine accurately. It Really needs to be Molded. Teflon is good but Virgin Teflon is Big $$$$$ so valuable in fact its remolded in to second hand blends. I've made tons of bushings for custom machines out of UHMW lasts a lifetime it takes an experienced Machinist its more time consuming needs to be made on a Conventional lathe. UHMW changes size with temps and machines different through the day . Its like trying to catch a snake once you have it figured out it changes direction. For our VWs just buy the molded polypropylene bushing use Synthetic wheel bearing grease replace when needed its a cheap wear item. |
That depends on WHICH Delrin formulation you are speaking of. The basic flavor of Delrin does wear relatively fast.
Low friction and glass filled variants do not. Ray |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32859
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:53 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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I've had my 1970 since 1972, and my 1971 Super since 1976. I've replaced the shift bushing exactly ONCE in each, so not sure one really needs a longer-lasting shift bushing.
About 270K on my 1970, and 145K on my 1971.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:48 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
| It seems like a un-proven solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. |
My car has almost 300k miles on it. I replaced the bushing for the first time about 50k miles ago, only because shifting was unreliable when I first put the 5 speed in.
How many hundreds of thousands of miles of testing have those non-standard bushings been subject to? |
Can anyone still buy the exact bushing and material that lasted 250k miles?
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:51 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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| Cusser wrote: |
I've had my 1970 since 1972, and my 1971 Super since 1976. I've replaced the shift bushing exactly ONCE in each, so not sure one really needs a longer-lasting shift bushing.
About 270K on my 1970, and 145K on my 1971. |
Can you send a link to a bushing that is the same as the one that lasted you so long? Because all thats on the market now is the empi/cip1 style that is not the same material as what lasted you so many years.
So how can someone duplicate what you did, when there is nothing on the market to buy to achieve this?
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3630
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:07 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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I see the Samba Seller that used to sell the Bronze bushings has switched to Delrin also. (Different company then the Washburns product in the first post)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1740498
He states here:
**Delrin® is a registered trademark of DuPont de Nemours, Inc. Delrin® acetal homopolymer (Polyoxymethylene POM) is the ideal material in parts designed to replace metal. It combines low-friction and high-wear resistance with the high strength and stiffness. Compared to acetal copolymer, Delrin® acetal homopolymer offers higher tensile strength, stiffness, creep and fatigue resistance, and significantly higher impact resistance.
Ray, what say you about the Delrin® acetal homopolymer (Polyoxymethylene POM)?
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3980
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: Re: New Delrin Shift Rod Bushing |
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Replacing that bushing is one of the worse jobs ever on a bug or ghia. In a bus I can drop the shift rod in 5 minutes. I would pay $100 for one, if it was made from the best material available.
To dismiss it, because it hasnt been tried or used before is being very narrow minded.
As soon as I get mine, I can test fit it, to see if getting past the bend is an issue, in a bus |
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