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Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)?
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:04 am    Post subject: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

My '74 914-4 (1.8 liter) shows evidence on its plugs of running slightly richer than I would prefer (dark markings, with some slight sooty deposits...not completely combusted fuel?). The car has a twin, dual Weber set-up (40mm IDFs) and it hasn't been driven much on the highway recently (only warmed up and idling too much). Although I've been told that 914-4s don't like overly lean mixes, the current Bosch plugs it runs probably need to be exchanged for slightly hotter replacements. Any suggestions from the more experienced on this subject? [Once I have the new plugs installed, the car will probably be exercised once every two weeks for about 9 miles, just to keep it fresh.] Thanks.
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Windisch wrote:
My '74 914-4 (1.8 liter) shows evidence on its plugs of running slightly richer than I would prefer (dark markings, with some slight sooty deposits...not completely combusted fuel?). The car has a twin, dual Weber set-up (40mm IDFs) and it hasn't been driven much on the highway recently (only warmed up and idling too much). Although I've been told that 914-4s don't like overly lean mixes, the current Bosch plugs it runs probably need to be exchanged for slightly hotter replacements. Any suggestions from the more experienced on this subject? [Once I have the new plugs installed, the car will probably be exercised once every two weeks for about 9 miles, just to keep it fresh.] Thanks.


What plug are you running now? In Bosch it should be a 7 heat range. If that is showing rich running its probably not the plugs.

Ray
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

What kind of plugs am I running right now? Good question. When I pulled them to check, I failed to make a note of the brand and rating on them. I'll do that today. They are probably Bosch but I'll have to take a look.
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[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

By the way, my understanding is that NGK and Bosch have inverse heat-ranges ratings. That is, with NGK plugs, the higher the number, the lower the heat. With Bosch, the reverse is true (the lower the number, the hotter the plug). Isn't that strange?! Wonder why this seeming lack of standards uniformity exists?
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

WR7DC and tune the engine and the carbs and you will be all set
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
WR7DC and tune the engine and the carbs and you will be all set


Thanks for that insight. That is what I shall do. Applause
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----------------------
Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

OK. Pulled a plug and checked, only to find that the existing plug (with the obvious carbon debris) is a Bosch WR8CC + Russia -420 rated plug.

What's with the "Russia" tag on it?! Given that with Bosch plugs, a higher heat number indicates hotter (than a WR7, for example), what's with this? Does this tell me that my carbs are too richly jetted, perhaps?

Unless otherwise advised, I'll probably install the new set of Bosch WR7CD plugs (that are recommended specifically for a FI 914 1.8 liter engine) and check the main carb jets, opting for a slightly leaner jet...

"RUSSIA?!" Hummmph! Нет, спасибо, товарищ!
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
----------------------
Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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TornadoRed06
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Windisch wrote:


What's with the "Russia" tag on it?! Given that with Bosch plugs, a higher heat number indicates hotter (than a WR7, for example), what's with this? Does this tell me that my carbs are too richly jetted, perhaps?


Well, Russia means ' Made in ' as opposed to Germany, since before the current conflict, a lot of Bosch Spark Plugs were being made in Nickel-rich Russia.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

TornadoRed06 wrote:
Windisch wrote:


What's with the "Russia" tag on it?! Given that with Bosch plugs, a higher heat number indicates hotter (than a WR7, for example), what's with this? Does this tell me that my carbs are too richly jetted, perhaps?


Well, Russia means ' Made in ' as opposed to Germany, since before the current conflict, a lot of Bosch Spark Plugs were being made in Nickel-rich Russia.

--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for clarifying that for me, TornadoRed. I had no idea that Russia was supplying Bosch spark plugs for the rest of the world. Curiously enough, I once had a LADA Niva (the nifty little Russian 4WD mini-SUV) while in Saudi Arabia and loved it! Ran it constantly out in the desolate 'Tihama' desert between Taif and Jeddah (where Makkah is located) and never once had any problems with it. So I guess I can live with Rooski spark plugs, heh-heh.
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
----------------------
Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Windisch wrote:
OK. Pulled a plug and checked, only to find that the existing plug (with the obvious carbon debris) is a Bosch WR8CC + Russia -420 rated plug.

What's with the "Russia" tag on it?! Given that with Bosch plugs, a higher heat number indicates hotter (than a WR7, for example), what's with this? Does this tell me that my carbs are too richly jetted, perhaps?

Unless otherwise advised, I'll probably install the new set of Bosch WR7CD plugs (that are recommended specifically for a FI 914 1.8 liter engine) and check the main carb jets, opting for a slightly leaner jet...

"RUSSIA?!" Hummmph! Нет, спасибо, товарищ!


First, if you have a stock ignition and wires, do not use a resistor plug. So you want a plug with no "r" after the W.

Next, as already mentioned, Bosch has had a plant making spark plugs in Russia for a while now. They have sparkplug plants in Germany, Brazil, India, China and Russia that I know of.

About 6 years ago the Bosch sparkplug for my 2012 Golf went from being labled made in Germany to being labeled made in Russia and that's all I can find for that part #.

On the plus side, the quality of the Russian made Bosch plug is top notch. On the negative side I have no interest in putting money/profit into Russia for what they are doing in the world right now. Ray
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Windisch wrote:
OK. Pulled a plug and checked, only to find that the existing plug (with the obvious carbon debris) is a Bosch WR8CC + Russia -420 rated plug.

What's with the "Russia" tag on it?! Given that with Bosch plugs, a higher heat number indicates hotter (than a WR7, for example), what's with this? Does this tell me that my carbs are too richly jetted, perhaps?

Unless otherwise advised, I'll probably install the new set of Bosch WR7CD plugs (that are recommended specifically for a FI 914 1.8 liter engine) and check the main carb jets, opting for a slightly leaner jet...

"RUSSIA?!" Hummmph! Нет, спасибо, товарищ!


First, if you have a stock ignition and wires, do not use a resistor plug. So you want a plug with no "r" after the W.

Next, as already mentioned, Bosch has had a plant making spark plugs in Russia for a while now. They have sparkplug plants in Germany, Brazil, India, China and Russia that I know of.

About 6 years ago the Bosch sparkplug for my 2012 Golf went from being labled made in Germany to being labeled made in Russia and that's all I can find for that part #.

On the plus side, the quality of the Russian made Bosch plug is top notch. On the negative side I have no interest in putting money/profit into Russia for what they are doing in the world right now. Ray


----------------------------

Thanks for the input, Ray. My 914 has electronic ignition distribution, by the way, so are you saying that a resistor plug shouldn't be used with electronic ignition, also? Or just with points & condenser set-ups?

As for Russia, I share your disapprobation with Russia's present political belligerence. IMO, Putin is acting egregiously in the Ukraine, so on that basis, I am also not keen on 'rewarding' Russia with my support, regardless of the quality of their Bosch sparkplugs. By extension, I guess Germany isn't particularly concerned about this uncomfortable trade nuance, unfortunately...
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
----------------------
Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

I just checked further on Ray's advice about using a non-resistor plug (e.g. Bosch W7CC) instead of a WR7CD on an electronic-ignition equipped VW/914 and several on-line references, including one at PELICAN PARTS, affirm that advice. This was an important tech epiphany for someone like myself who is only a modestly skilled 'shade-tree' mechanic (despite years of SCCA SFO club racing work). I never gave much thought to the 'tech' details of 914 Groups C and E/F racing efforts, back in the 80s, leaving such considerations to the gear-head mechanics (duh!). But then, I've flitted back and fourth, over the years (to and from several marques) and now find my never-too-good memory getting worse and worse with age!

Next big subject for me to bone-up on will be appropriate Weber 40mm IDF carb main jetting, although I understand that a 130 main jet is probably a good starting point on a small displacement (1.8 liter) Porsche air-sucker. We'll see.
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[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

FURTHER NEWS ON THE SPARK PLUG ISSUE:

SoCal (VW) Parts in Southern California sent me 8 RESISTOR plugs (WR7CD) instead of the 8 non-resistor (W7CC) plugs I ordered from them, despite SoCal advertising that the plugs were Bosch W7CC
. When I queried them about this, their explanation was as follows: "We purchased a number of the Bosch W7CC plugs some years ago, but we've run out of that stock and now the plugs we sell are all Bosch WR7CD." They went on to say that both Bosch and Denso stopped manufacturing non-resistor plugs about 12 years ago.

They did not say whether that included Russian Bosch plug production, but it's anyone's guess, barring more precise and exact, up-to-date info on this matter.

All this is extremely confusing for anyone trying to figure out exactly what's-what here but I gather that RESISTOR plugs are now sanctioned as being fine for electronic ignitions and the NON-RESISTOR (Bosch and Nippon Denso) plugs are, if not available commonly, at least almost impossible to find presently. Brick wall Or so say some of the aftermarket VW parts sellers.
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1973 Standard Beetle, 1974 VW/Porsche 914-4, 1.8 liter
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Windisch wrote:
FURTHER NEWS ON THE SPARK PLUG ISSUE:

SoCal (VW) Parts in Southern California sent me 8 RESISTOR plugs (WR7CD) instead of the 8 non-resistor (W7CC) plugs I ordered from them, despite SoCal advertising that the plugs were Bosch W7CC
. When I queried them about this, their explanation was as follows: "We purchased a number of the Bosch W7CC plugs some years ago, but we've run out of that stock and now the plugs we sell are all Bosch WR7CD." They went on to say that both Bosch and Denso stopped manufacturing non-resistor plugs about 12 years ago.

They did not say whether that included Russian Bosch plug production, but it's anyone's guess, barring more precise and exact, up-to-date info on this matter.

All this is extremely confusing for anyone trying to figure out exactly what's-what here but I gather that RESISTOR plugs are now sanctioned as being fine for electronic ignitions and the NON-RESISTOR (Bosch and Nippon Denso) plugs are, if not available commonly, at least almost impossible to find presently. Brick wall Or so say some of the aftermarket VW parts sellers.


There are a couple of options to get around this issue.

1. You note your ignition is electronic. What kind of ignition is it? What coil is it using?

The only real problem with stock ignitions using resistor plugs on 914/411/412 cars is that most of them had compression right on the fringe of what could be considered high compression and with the original D-jet they had a moderately lean burn at highway cruise. The stock points driven coil when warmed up was only really putting out 18-20kv. That's plenty if everything is correct....but it's really only just enough.

And, the plug wires already had 1k ohm resistance built in.

So option #1 is that if you can use a better than stock coil like a fairly standard Pertronix flamethrower coil at about 40kv.....the resistor plugs are not really going to be an issue.

2. Option #2, find a set if wires with no added resistor.

3. Option 3....this is the one I use. There are plenty of private people and small vendors that have non-resistor plugs for sale online.
My advice is to start collecting plugs in places like ebay until you hit a target number in your stash that you think will last you. I would stay away from sites that seem to be Asian, have poor grammar....and seem to have a large supply ....like selling sets of 4 or 6 plugs and list "20 in stock 50 sold"....and do not have REAL pictures of the product but instead are using generic Bosch site pictures of brand new boxes. A lot of these are counterfeit.

In general I have collected about 40 Bosch W7DTC triple electrode plugs and about 16 NGK BP6ET triples over various auctions. I figure even if I get a poor 25k miles per set ....by the time I get my car back on the road thats at minimum 350,000 miles worth of plugs.

The way I do it is look at ebay sellers selling plugs with pictures of the original boxes and have good references and ask a few questions. If you can get a close up picture of the box or the plug it can tell you a lot.

When I was collecting my spark plugs....I budgeted about $30 a month. With shipping, through auctions, most of them ran right at $25-$30 a set of four. I found a two auctions with 10 plug service boxes unopened....and got 10 plugs at a time for roughly the same $30. In my mind....I try to shoot for no more than $5 per plug delivered.

4. Option #4. Look for the cross match plug in NGK. They are still making non-resistor plugs as far as I know and they WERE back in the day....equal for Bosch plugs in quality...and now many of them are superior to off-shore produced Bosch plugs.

Keep in mind that all of the non-resistor Bosch plugs you are looking for should be at least 10-15 years old now so they should be of best quality. Ray
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Hi Ray and thanks, as always, for those shared insights. That seems like a good approach to take towards the plug issues. My coil is a Bosch 'Blue' and the disty is a Pertronix, so I guess good to go on those scores. Interesting to consider the nuances of disty/coil/plug combinations in detail...all aspects of ignition I haven't focused on previously, but definitely salient!

Now if I can just get a few good days of sun, higher temps and no freezing winter 'Tule Fog' to contend with (here in the 'Always sunny and never rains Californica' state), I can spend some quality time out in the garage with 'Jezibel', the yellow 914, LoL.

My 73 orange VW Bug hunkers down in the side driveway, outside, under its weatherproof cover but I can feel its vibes way out here: pure jealousy! Crying or Very sad
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[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Windisch wrote:
Hi Ray and thanks, as always, for those shared insights. That seems like a good approach to take towards the plug issues. My coil is a Bosch 'Blue' and the disty is a Pertronix, so I guess good to go on those scores. Interesting to consider the nuances of disty/coil/plug combinations in detail...all aspects of ignition I haven't focused on previously, but definitely salient!

Now if I can just get a few good days of sun, higher temps and no freezing winter 'Tule Fog' to contend with (here in the 'Always sunny and never rains Californica' state), I can spend some quality time out in the garage with 'Jezibel', the yellow 914, LoL.

My 73 orange VW Bug hunkers down in the side driveway, outside, under its weatherproof cover but I can feel its vibes way out here: pure jealousy! Crying or Very sad


Ok...so you have a Pertronix distributor or just a Pertronix module inside of the stock distrbutor? Either way does not matter. The Pertronix 42kv coil is one of the best basic level 1 upgrades to use alongside a Pertronix module.

It may still work better with non-resistor plugs but I know it works well enough with resistor plugs. You might also look for non-resistor spark plug wires.

But....check these out:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363949427981?hash=item54b...R6T9zfKxYw


https://www.ebay.com/itm/155951272100?epid=7706523...R6T9zfKxYw


https://www.ebay.com/itm/235412605810?epid=7706523...R6T9zfKxYw



So there are some out there. Ray
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Windisch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Hotter spark plug recommendations for 914-4 (1.8 liter)? Reply with quote

Copy that, Ray. Thanks.
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Der Volkswagen ist ein Ausdruck der deutschen Kultur der Allrad Art ...

[The only irrefutable evidence we have that intelligent life truly exists elsewhere in the Universe is the fact that so far it has NOT contacted humanity...]
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