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Lo Cash John
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 2246
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| allamaabroad wrote: |
| Lo Cash John wrote: |
| I know a guy with the system from Debbie's Aircooled. He's been struggling with it a lot. Issues MIGHT be installation related but I can't say for certain yet. |
Since you're bringing it up again, how is he doing? I haven't been able to get a hold of him in a while. I know his flywheel got completely fubar'd by that aftermarket starter setup.
Also to once again shed light on the situation here, the installation was retro fitting a CB Performance Gen 3 EFI system to one of my ECU's. IMO the install was rushed. The old (somewhat questionable) CB harness was used, a few things were wired incorrectly/backwards, and the wrong type of injectors were used for some period of time. The ECU worked flawlessly when it left my possession.
Last I talked with this customer, I offered to do a once over on the ECU and fix any components that may have gotten damaged due to the above circumstances. |
I spoke to him yesterday. He says the unit is going back to you for field testing on your end. Hopefully it's something easy to sort out so he can get it back and switch back off the carbs. Without EFI he's limited on how much boost he can throw at his motor.
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www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
Yep, plan was to add manifold vacuum with a CB vacuum ref kit for the dcoe later. The bb is currently on a mostly stock carb motor, centermount, used motor I have for testing. Ive had the bb on both motors already
Ive been wondering if its points bounce the bb is seeing, causing the jitter ?
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2040.htm |
Seen a few ppl try this and have never understood why. You’re just essentially running a programmed 009. Only time i could possibly see a reason would be WOT drag race. But again, why when you could accomplish the same thing just as easily and simpler with a 009.
Do you just not currently have a vacuum port, so plan on messing with that later?
Do you have anything else running off of coil’s + ?
Ive had some timing flutter before but was just the dizzy , when i swapped it out. Flutter went away. If you’ve used a couple old ones id say to try a brand new dizzy and see what happens
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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Eddie010
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2017
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Its just the standard single carb map that comes with the bb. I havent changed anything. Im not using manifold vacuum - just want timing control |
Sorry but how does the black box knows what your throttle position is without vacuum? The Black box needs this for the correct timing, you can t run it without vacuum. |
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jimmyhoffa
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1059
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| Eddie010 wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Its just the standard single carb map that comes with the bb. I havent changed anything. Im not using manifold vacuum - just want timing control |
Sorry but how does the black box knows what your throttle position is without vacuum? The Black box needs this for the correct timing, you can t run it without vacuum. |
Sure you can, look at the table. It will just use whatever timing is specified with 0 vacuum/roughly equivalent to wide open throttle. It functions just like a centrifugal distributor, but programmable. It will only use the row of the table corresponding to no vacuum being pulled, but it will obey timing at each RPM. Still pretty handy in that sense even if you aren't using vac, because you can re-curve your distributor without ever touching anything but your laptop and 10 seconds of your time to change a cell value and push the upload button.
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| jimmyhoffa wrote: |
| Eddie010 wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Its just the standard single carb map that comes with the bb. I havent changed anything. Im not using manifold vacuum - just want timing control |
Sorry but how does the black box knows what your throttle position is without vacuum? The Black box needs this for the correct timing, you can t run it without vacuum. |
Sure you can, look at the table. It will just use whatever timing is specified with 0 vacuum/roughly equivalent to wide open throttle. It functions just like a centrifugal distributor, but programmable. It will only use the row of the table corresponding to no vacuum being pulled, but it will obey timing at each RPM. Still pretty handy in that sense even if you aren't using vac, because you can re-curve your distributor without ever touching anything but your laptop and 10 seconds of your time to change a cell value and push the upload button. |
Yep thats true! But it’s pretty stupid to run it that way, thats the equivalent of installing a turbo and wiring the wastegate open because you dont want any boost.
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5489
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| BFB wrote: |
| jimmyhoffa wrote: |
| Eddie010 wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Its just the standard single carb map that comes with the bb. I havent changed anything. Im not using manifold vacuum - just want timing control |
Sorry but how does the black box knows what your throttle position is without vacuum? The Black box needs this for the correct timing, you can t run it without vacuum. |
Sure you can, look at the table. It will just use whatever timing is specified with 0 vacuum/roughly equivalent to wide open throttle. It functions just like a centrifugal distributor, but programmable. It will only use the row of the table corresponding to no vacuum being pulled, but it will obey timing at each RPM. Still pretty handy in that sense even if you aren't using vac, because you can re-curve your distributor without ever touching anything but your laptop and 10 seconds of your time to change a cell value and push the upload button. |
Yep thats true! But it’s pretty stupid to run it that way, thats the equivalent of installing a turbo and wiring the wastegate open because you dont want any boost. |
It's not any more or less stupid than running an 009, an 019, or an 010 distributor.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| BFB wrote: |
| jimmyhoffa wrote: |
| Eddie010 wrote: |
| chrisflstf wrote: |
| Its just the standard single carb map that comes with the bb. I havent changed anything. Im not using manifold vacuum - just want timing control |
Sorry but how does the black box knows what your throttle position is without vacuum? The Black box needs this for the correct timing, you can t run it without vacuum. |
Sure you can, look at the table. It will just use whatever timing is specified with 0 vacuum/roughly equivalent to wide open throttle. It functions just like a centrifugal distributor, but programmable. It will only use the row of the table corresponding to no vacuum being pulled, but it will obey timing at each RPM. Still pretty handy in that sense even if you aren't using vac, because you can re-curve your distributor without ever touching anything but your laptop and 10 seconds of your time to change a cell value and push the upload button. |
Yep thats true! But it’s pretty stupid to run it that way, thats the equivalent of installing a turbo and wiring the wastegate open because you dont want any boost. |
It's not any more or less stupid than running an 009, an 019, or an 010 distributor. |
actually it is more, because an extra part was purchased AND the additional installation, wiring, and setting up the timing map all to end up with a timing curve that's probably very similar to an 009, 019, or 010.
any one the above listed dizzy are easily recurved or limited and 009's a dime a dozen
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
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Don Jones
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2020
Posts: 199
Location: Makaha, Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| Actually it is more, because an extra part was purchased AND the additional installation, wiring, and setting up the timing map all to end up with a timing curve that's probably very similar to an 009, 019, or 010. Any one the above listed dizzy are easily recurved or limited and 009's a dime a dozen |
I'm with you NA motor w/ 009 recurved distributor (thanks to Ohio Tom info)...KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)and enjoy it. Points distributors been around over 50 years and Keep On Ticking. Keeps troubleshooting to a minimum. Wonder what would happen if the black box decided to call it quits, especially running a turbo on max boost?
And the keep fusing with the timing map and never being satisfied. Just helped a non-computer friend set up a black box on his turbo...not my "cup of tea" |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 1762
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| Don Jones wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Actually it is more, because an extra part was purchased AND the additional installation, wiring, and setting up the timing map all to end up with a timing curve that's probably very similar to an 009, 019, or 010. Any one the above listed dizzy are easily recurved or limited and 009's a dime a dozen |
I'm with you NA motor w/ 009 recurved distributor (thanks to Ohio Tom info)...KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)and enjoy it. Points distributors been around over 50 years and Keep On Ticking. Keeps troubleshooting to a minimum. Wonder what would happen if the black box decided to call it quits, especially running a turbo on max boost?
And the keep fusing with the timing map and never being satisfied. Just helped a non-computer friend set up a black box on his turbo...not my "cup of tea" |
Actually im the one that said what you quoted, you must’ve deleted all the rest …
And no, your not really with me, i love the Black Box and have installed about 10 of them id guess, a few on N/A engines too not just boosted. On N/A you can have easier start up, crisper throttle and better fuel mileage but you have to understand timing a lot more than just setting a dizzy. Also, I bought the very first one produced and it’s been in use for what , 10 years ? So, very reliable ( knock on wood ) and if the BB should ever fail all you have to do re-set your dizzy and hook it directly to the coil , bypassing the BB. It will be locked at whatever you set it to so not perfect scenario but will definitely get you home.So theres really less concern with the BB going out than there is with a set of point or electronic pick up ( if you dont carry a spare ).
And fussing with the timing map is part of the fun, it’s a learning curve ( no pun intended. Well, yeh there was an intentional pun there)
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1 |
|
| Back to top |
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Don Jones
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2020
Posts: 199
Location: Makaha, Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Everything about CB Performance Black Box |
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| BFB, I humbly apologize for the misquote. Will be more carefull the next time. |
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