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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Folks, I'm curious to know If anyone else has seen a CAT fail prematurely, as I have just apparently encountered ?
This is a MagnaFlow 50 State model, with 7k miles on it, where the Catalyst broke free inside.
Wouldn't this logically be considered a defect ? Or should I just -stop whining and suck it up and shell out another $1300 ?
Thanks !
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3061 Location: MD
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Dunno why you'd ask here instead of contacting them immediately and just ask for a replacement. It's 5 year/50k miles.
https://www.magnaflow.com/pages/warranty _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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I'm asking here because GoWesty, who I bought it from, told me it is beyond warranty and they will not pursue it.
I get it, going directly to the manufacturer might be my only option, I appreciate that info though.
I was hoping GoWesty would do my bidding for me since they said " They have my Back" on their website - but maybe I'm being naive. |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1575
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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50 state?
The california magnaflow I got is stainless body, not rusty.
A maladjusted motor running rich can kill a cat fast. make sure tune is good.
always replace the Oxygen sensor when getting a new cat, cheap insurance to assure a worn out sensor dont ruin a pricey cat. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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I would definitely call Magnaflow. Our 48-state Magnaflow did not rust, but did lose its guts pretty quickly when running rich from clogged injectors.
The other option’s reply is not surprising, unless you indeed have been running rich in which case I can understand it.
Did they offer a deal on a replacement?
How long have you had it?
How long before you need to pass emissions? _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1575
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Id straight pipe it in order to get the problem sorted out, dont just put a new cat on there without first fixing the rich running issue. The only other thing might be it died from impact damage which got it clogged and over heated which ruined it BUT would have given very noticeable engine issues,
My guess you will find it running rich.
see what your oxygen sensor is reading, then replace with new sensor and monitor it signal also, compair the signals. make sure temp sensor readings are rights, particularly the water temp make sure no intake leaks, exhaust leaks both of which can trick Oxygen sensor into enriching mixture. check fuel pressure, injectors for leaks, spray pattern make sure sparks are good on all cylinders airfilter clean? _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Exactly what I was eluding to in asking when it next needs to pass emissions.
If you have to pay to replace, I’d attempt an emissions test asap if it’s running well. When ours failed, again from running rich but for well over a year, I pulled everything apart and noticed the converter was dead empty. Emissions was a year off so left it empty, it ran waaaaay better and got better mileage by a good bit.
If in Denver I’d have just replaced it, but it all made me wonder if the environmental gain actually lives in less CO, or using less gas. Our footprint is so incredibly tiny, I lived with any guilt I’d have had if still in the city.
I’d test as is just for giggles. It may well pass if it runs well, on CO even our crappy-running first van was like 30% of the legal limits, with clogged injector(s). _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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E1 wrote: |
Did they offer a deal on a replacement?
How long have you had it?
How long before you need to pass emissions? |
They offered nothing, (other than the word sorry)
It was installed 2 yrs ago and has 7K miles on it
I just passed emissions last month, so I have 2 years to sort it out.
And Yes, I installed an old hollowed out one for now, I keep one for this kind of situation. |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Good. Thanks.
Check your sparks plugs, if cocoa brown tell that to Magnaflow. Put on your negotiator’s cap, be nice, and they should be reasonable.
If they offer nothing, ask them if they can sell one at cost, or half-price if that’s less than cost, or you’ll buy other brands for the next XX years.
They also might not like the kind of press seen right here, right now, and every time anyone sees this thread.
Win-win.
I don’t think there’s any substantive risk in doing an emissions test at a center as is. Or at a mechanic’s, no risk there is likely. It may pass as it is right now, with either cat. $1,300 is nutty.
Ours is registered as a historic vehicle for five years, it’s a 48-state cat but we’ll run as is and see what happens. CO just went to the 50-state, we may well register elsewhere before paying probably $1,500 in 2026. Not made of money to burn.
That’s ridiculous to pay full-price after 7,000 miles, your fault or not.
VanAgain gets nearly all our business. Some things cost a little more, but they care a helluva lot more. Our money is our vote.
Good luck. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1575
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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goubeaux wrote: |
E1 wrote: |
Did they offer a deal on a replacement?
How long have you had it?
How long before you need to pass emissions? |
They offered nothing, (other than the word sorry)
It was installed 2 yrs ago and has 7K miles on it
I just passed emissions last month, so I have 2 years to sort it out.
And Yes, I installed an old hollowed out one for now, I keep one for this kind of situation. |
A good catalyst can mask some really rich running motors in an emission test, allowing that rich motor to pass, as the catalyst is being destroyed. or a good catalyst can be destroyed very quickly by a bad running engine.
If your engine was running bad, be it before or after the emissions test, and that rich running ruined the catalyst, then why should the catalyst seller or maker be on the hook for it?
Get you van tested now, before you install a new catalyst, find out if the engine is in good tune or not. If in good tune, get it documented, which may help you in getting the catalyst refunded, If you find your van is out of tune, then dont pursue the catalyst maker or seller for a refund, as the failure is not their fault. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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A replacement at cost would have been appropriate.
But that’s mostly me — competing fairly instead of sucking a monopoly dry. No way would some vendors wanna double-profit after 7,000 miles, longtime customers are worth it — and all that silly, last-century, customer’s always right nonsense.
I wonder if the vendor bothered to make suggestions on how to check so another doesn’t tank. Or is that too much, too?
A cost replacement from any manufacturer is fair to ask. But I do agree with knowing it’s not as rich as a malt. Just because this genre often treats its customers like open wallets doesn’t mean we should defend it.
You do you. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1575
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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E1 wrote: |
A replacement at cost would have been appropriate.
But that’s mostly me — competing fairly instead of sucking a monopoly dry. No way would some vendors wanna double-profit after 7,000 miles, longtime customers are worth it — and all that silly, last-century, customer’s always right nonsense.
I wonder if the vendor bothered to make suggestions on how to check so another doesn’t tank. Or is that too much, too?
A cost replacement from any manufacturer is fair to ask. But I do agree with knowing it’s not as rich as a malt. Just because this genre often treats its customers like open wallets doesn’t mean we should defend it.
You do you. |
Honesty is paramount. If the van ran to rich thus killing the catalyst, dont claim otherwise in an attempt to get a refund, cause that aint right to do. It dont matter if the store or maker is a monopoly or not. Why should the store or maker be on the hook if the van ran rich, thus destroying the catalyst?
If you burn your steak dinner on the bbq, should the butcher be on the hook to refund the price of your steak?
You can ask for a refund, a price cut, but do it honestly. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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I never for one second suggested dishonesty. A pet peeve… honestly!
Was just saying capitalizing, even on a van issue to make double the profit, is crap behavior. Trust needs showing to customers, too.
Worthy discussion, Thanks. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1575
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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E1 wrote: |
I never for one second suggested dishonesty. A pet peeve… honestly!
Was just saying capitalizing, even on a van issue to make double the profit, is crap behavior. Trust needs showing to customers, too.
Worthy discussion, Thanks. |
Sorry if it sounded that way, I dont suggest you thought that. sorry about that, not my intent to do so.
When you wrote "it is mostly me" I wanted to expand on that to say it should be just everybody should be like you, not just you, or me, but everybody. No ill well I hope, you seem to be very honest. _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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No worries here, Bud, apologies as well. It’s good to clarify and I really respect your saying all that!
Sometimes things get misinterpreted, especially in text, by us all.
I do get testy at some vendors. I’ve met all the western ones, several times, and really miss Peter in Santa Cruz. I also make sure to counter with bragging about the great ones, word of mouth is the best ally for all us V-Dubbers — as in any business. To me, one’s pointless without the other.
It is different when one’s livelihood if not survival depends on the honor of others. If I did a thread on all we’ve witnessed, I’d probably be thought a liar. So I don’t, ‘cause that’s the last thing I am.
By the way, the Missus’ birthday is tomorrow and we just picked up t-bones. And know there’s zero chance of cooking them poorly.
Thanks for being real, Bud. Beer sometime, Mehopes. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Thanks for those thoughtful and helpful responses.
This is not about trying to scam and get something for free, rather to understand what might have gone wrong, and Yes learn from it.
I'm the first to admit if I made a mistake, but I'm also not one to just take "No and or go away" for an answer, without asking a few questions and or investigating a bit, especially IF I paid good money and read the instructions and warranty.
We're all aware by now that there are too many poorly manufactured components being "shoveled" out the door that are "half baked". We're also doing our share of testing for a few entities by buying their parts to help determine if/when they fail. No better example than the software industry. I don't necessarily have a problem with this IF it is up front and/or there is some give and take.
I'm happy to hear that Peter at VolksCafe in Santa Cruz ( the original name ) was mentioned here. What a special guy he was !
He went out of his way to make sure his customers felt appreciated, and more than once he helped me out of a bind. |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Very good, and Thanks.
I guess the remaining wonder is if you’re running rich. Have you checked the plugs? It’s critical to know this, for others if nothing else.
All the best. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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goubeaux Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2017 Posts: 89 Location: Santa Barbara, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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I'm going to dig into it, hopefully tomorrow. I will pull and inspect the plugs, then take it from there.
I'll report my findings, and likely have some more questions on some other variables that can cause running rich scenarios.
For now though the hollowed out CAT is my friend !
-sounds like the title to an Edgar Allan Poe poem- |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6602 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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I just can’t help it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O6As2C5xM9w&pp=y...aWRlbyA%3D _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22673 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Failed Catalytic Converter |
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Magnaflows are cheap off market replacements for OE cats, on modern cars any tech worth salt will tell you to stay OE.
When you see the OE part at 1/3 the price of OE, it not market abuse, it’s quality _________________ .ssS! |
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