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mikeonthebike Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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I just installed a new turn signal switch on my 72 Super. The old one was worn out. I bought it at the local VW supply store. CIP1 quality. It won't self cancel. There was a loose spring in the old one when I took it out. About 1 1/2 long and skinny. Kind of like an ink pen spring. Does it need to go somewhere? I read a post that sometimes when bought new the self cancel doesn't work. I can live with it but it would be nice to have if I can fix it.
Also, when I turn on brights they won't stay on unless I hold the switch back. This also happened with the old turn signal switch. And sometimes when I click on brights, the headlights go off then I have to switch on again and they work.
Is there another bright light switch I can replace? |
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baldessariclan Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1385 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Unfortunately, if you search older Samba threads, you’ll find plenty of evidence and talk about current aftermarket turn signal switches not functioning correctly right out of the box, not cancelling after turns, and etc., etc. - they seem to be universally pretty crappy, for the most part. Some folks reported the turn signal switch available from Wolfsburg West working a little better, but thought I read at least a couple posts where those ones wouldn’t cancel either (?).
First thought would be to contact CIP1 and exchange for another new switch to try out and see if it works any better than the first one they sent you. And/or return the defective unit(s) for a refund (although I’ve had issues w/ them in the past for stuff like that - caveat emptor).
Another thought would be to try to clean & repair your original turn signal switch if possible. If it’s too far gone, then maybe search out another original German used switch to clean and repair instead - ? Just a couple ideas to think about... _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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mikeonthebike Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Thanks. I guess I'll live without the cancel. A lot less work than replacing.
Now if I can figure out why the high beams don't stay on. Those are more important to me. |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 714 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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I couldn't salvage the turn signal switch on my '69 ... plastic components were too brittle and easily broke during removal. Replaced it with the WW reproduction and so far it is working as it should (self canceling and high beam switch). I seem to recall that the self cancelling function worked best if the switch assembly was only tightened down just snug ... if too tight it seemed to prevent parts of the assembly from moving freely. The switch for my '69 is currently ~ $98 (I think I paid $70-something for it last year.) Pricey for sure, but worth it if it works. The one for your '72 can be found at:
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111953513F
This one is only $66 ... so perhaps not the same quality as the one I used. It might be worth asking them where they source it and how the quality compares to the ones they sell for other years. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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Jimbug57 Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002 Posts: 817 Location: Mid Michigan
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:44 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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I've purchased 3 turn signal switches for my 73 super over the last couple years. I would have purchased from Wolfsburg West, but they haven't been in stock for as long as I've been looking. The first one was purchased based on lowest price from Cip1 - junk. The second was an Empi from my regular guy here in Michigan - better, but still not usable.
The third one came from partsgeek. It actually works after some careful installation. Horn, blinkers, and high beam all work. It is branded "Volkswagon" (not Volkswagen) but is made in Mexico instead of China.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1972/volkswagen/...witch.html
That's what worked for me anyway - Jim _________________ Repeat after me "I am smarter than metal!" |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34024 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:00 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Likely the headlight relay is faulty or mis-wired. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15990 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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mikeonthebike wrote: |
I just installed a new turn signal switch on my 72 Super. The old one was worn out. I bought it at the local VW supply store. CIP1 quality. It won't self cancel... I read a post that sometimes when bought new the self cancel doesn't work. I can live with it but it would be nice to have if I can fix it. |
Sometimes the 4 screws that hold the turn signal assembly in place can be too tight and cause friction so the switch does not self cancel. I recommend loosening the screws that hold the switch down and also spraying silicone lubricant into the plastic/nylon internals of the switch so they slide freely.
Test the self cancel mechanism. When you move the turn signal lever into the L or R position you should see a small tab extend inward just to the right of the steering shaft; into the slot where the steering wheel cancel tab inserts into the turn signal switch face. You can just see it in the below pic between the steering shaft and the "W" spring.
With a small screwdriver, flick the tab up or down (not in or out) as the cancel tab would as the wheel is returned to center. When the small tab is flicked the turn signal arm should re-center (self cancel).
A common issue is the canceling tab does not extend far enough into the switch to make contact as the wheel is returned to center.
This is why you adjust the gap between the steering wheel and the steering column housing so the cancel tab is close enough to work. Note that the cancel tab on the steering wheel should come to rest at the 3-o'clock position when the wheel is centered. If it does not center with the cancel tab at 3-o'clock the self-cancel mechanism may not work as designed.
And never install the steering wheel with the turn signal lever in the L or R turn position. Inserting the cancel tab (inward) while the small tab is extended will crush it and break the turn signal mechanism.
mikeonthebike wrote: |
There was a loose spring in the old one when I took it out. About 1 1/2 long and skinny. Kind of like an ink pen spring. Does it need to go somewhere? |
That does not sound like anything from the turn signal switch. Maybe it came from the steering column lock/ignition switch assembly?
mikeonthebike wrote: |
Also, when I turn on brights they won't stay on unless I hold the switch back. This also happened with the old turn signal switch. And sometimes when I click on brights, the headlights go off then I have to switch on again and they work.
Is there another bright light switch I can replace? |
What you are describing is a headlight dimmer relay on its way out. Look for a replacement relay.
Most of the aftermarket dimmer relays are 5-prong vs. US spec 4-prong from the factory. You will need to add an extra red #30 wire to use the 5-prong relay as a replacement for a failed 4-prong. Most 5-prong relays will not work if you leave the 5th prong disconnected. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Last edited by ashman40 on Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:05 am; edited 3 times in total |
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doug bugg Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2003 Posts: 349 Location: Minneapolis
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:51 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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I had to buy three aftermarket switches before I got one that worked. I don't remember where I got it but I could dig up the paperwork on it. |
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mikeonthebike Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Thanks for the advice. I'll take another look at everything this weekend. |
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BUGGED11111 Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2006 Posts: 1821 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:23 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Those aftermarket switches are very fussy about how they are tightened down with the 4 screws. One screw too tight in relation to the one across from it and it's not going to work. I've had switches where I needed to leave one screw untightened for the switch to cancel.
A bit like tensioning the head of a banjo. |
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mwbrown42 Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2024 Posts: 1 Location: USA, Spain
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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BUGGED11111 wrote: |
Those aftermarket switches are very fussy about how they are tightened down with the 4 screws. One screw too tight in relation to the one across from it and it's not going to work. I've had switches where I needed to leave one screw untightened for the switch to cancel.
A bit like tensioning the head of a banjo. |
Oh you just saved my sanity and time!
I bought a replacement blinker switch assembly for my 914 and only the right blinker worked and neither direction auto-cancelled. A Google search brought me here, I backed the 4 screws off half a turn and everything works perfectly!
Thanks! |
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clockworkbox Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2020 Posts: 296 Location: Williamsport, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:58 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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Jimbug57 wrote: |
I've purchased 3 turn signal switches for my 73 super over the last couple years. I would have purchased from Wolfsburg West, but they haven't been in stock for as long as I've been looking. The first one was purchased based on lowest price from Cip1 - junk. The second was an Empi from my regular guy here in Michigan - better, but still not usable.
The third one came from partsgeek. It actually works after some careful installation. Horn, blinkers, and high beam all work. It is branded "Volkswagon" (not Volkswagen) but is made in Mexico instead of China.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1972/volkswagen/...witch.html
That's what worked for me anyway - Jim |
I just tried to order this and they sent me EMPI. Though the EMPI one is listed there and costs more than what I ordered, it is not what I wanted. Maybe they thought I wouldn't mind the free "upgrade". I think I am going to return and buy the WW. _________________ '69 Beetle (pieces)
Learning the hard way is still learning... |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 714 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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clockworkbox wrote: |
Jimbug57 wrote: |
I've purchased 3 turn signal switches for my 73 super over the last couple years. I would have purchased from Wolfsburg West, but they haven't been in stock for as long as I've been looking. The first one was purchased based on lowest price from Cip1 - junk. The second was an Empi from my regular guy here in Michigan - better, but still not usable.
The third one came from partsgeek. It actually works after some careful installation. Horn, blinkers, and high beam all work. It is branded "Volkswagon" (not Volkswagen) but is made in Mexico instead of China.
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1972/volkswagen/...witch.html
That's what worked for me anyway - Jim |
I just tried to order this and they sent me EMPI. Though the EMPI one is listed there and costs more than what I ordered, it is not what I wanted. Maybe they thought I wouldn't mind the free "upgrade". I think I am going to return and buy the WW. |
Okay, so 20 months since my last post in this discussion ...
The WW TS switch self canceled fine for about a year, then only occasionally. Now it almost never self cancels. I have done nothing in the steering column since installing, so that function seems to have reached the end of its service life. I'm not spending the big bucks for another one, so will just turn it off when I'm done using it. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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baldessariclan Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1385 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:14 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
Okay, so 20 months since my last post in this discussion ...
The WW TS switch self canceled fine for about a year, then only occasionally. Now it almost never self cancels. I have done nothing in the steering column since installing, so that function seems to have reached the end of its service life. I'm not spending the big bucks for another one, so will just turn it off when I'm done using it. |
You might want to contact WW and see if they're willing to send a replacement or give you a refund for your current faulty one. And if they're not willing to stand behind what they sold you, please make sure and let us know, so we can publish those results here and warn others about the poor quality switch they are selling. Failure in less than 2 years service time is completely unacceptable -- I'm still running the original 50+ year old turn signal switch in my car, and it works just fine. _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 714 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:25 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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baldessariclan wrote: |
OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
Okay, so 20 months since my last post in this discussion ...
The WW TS switch self canceled fine for about a year, then only occasionally. Now it almost never self cancels. I have done nothing in the steering column since installing, so that function seems to have reached the end of its service life. I'm not spending the big bucks for another one, so will just turn it off when I'm done using it. |
You might want to contact WW and see if they're willing to send a replacement or give you a refund for your current faulty one. And if they're not willing to stand behind what they sold you, please make sure and let us know, so we can publish those results here and warn others about the poor quality switch they are selling. Failure in less than 2 years service time is completely unacceptable -- I'm still running the original 50+ year old turn signal switch in my car, and it works just fine. |
I have little doubt that WW would stand behind their product. They have always done so in the past. Apparently creating a reproduction turn signal switch that equals the quality of the original equipment is an insurmountable challenge. Who knows what the issue is ... quality of materials? ... attention to detail? ... skill level of the assembler? ... all of the above? Even if NOS ones were available, the plastic components would likely be brittle from age and fail once put into regular use. This switch is a time consuming pain to replace and finesse into functioning properly. My time is better spent working through my list of restoration tasks on my '63. It's certainly more rewarding to do that than to spend anymore time on turn signal switches of dubious quality. BTW ... the turn signal on the '63 doesn't self cancel, but otherwise works fine. I have no plans to try to correct this flaw ... who among us at the age of 61 can say everything works as well as it always has?
All of this said, WW will continue to be my "go to" supplier because I have had very few problems with parts purchased from them and they have, without hesitation, stood behind their products when a problem did exist. Yes, they are pricier than many other suppliers and do charge shipping, but my time is worth something ... as is everyone's since we all have less of it today than we had yesterday. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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baldessariclan Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1385 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:40 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
I have little doubt that WW would stand behind their product. They have always done so in the past. Apparently creating a reproduction turn signal switch that equals the quality of the original equipment is an insurmountable challenge. Who knows what the issue is ... quality of materials? ... attention to detail? ... skill level of the assembler? ... all of the above? Even if NOS ones were available, the plastic components would likely be brittle from age and fail once put into regular use. This switch is a time consuming pain to replace and finesse into functioning properly. My time is better spent working through my list of restoration tasks on my '63. It's certainly more rewarding to do that than to spend anymore time on turn signal switches of dubious quality. BTW ... the turn signal on the '63 doesn't self cancel, but otherwise works fine. I have no plans to try to correct this flaw ... who among us at the age of 61 can say everything works as well as it always has?
All of this said, WW will continue to be my "go to" supplier because I have had very few problems with parts purchased from them and they have, without hesitation, stood behind their products when a problem did exist. Yes, they are pricier than many other suppliers and do charge shipping, but my time is worth something ... as is everyone's since we all have less of it today than we had yesterday. |
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong - WW is definitely one of my favorite vendors as well. I especially like the fact they (mostly) don't bother with peddling any of the more questionable / poorer quality parts for a lower price - they just offer one of most types of items, and it's probably about the best quality they can source at the time.
That said, all I'm suggesting is that if WW were to offer you a replacement or refund for the turn signal switch they sold to you, that's a valuable bit of information for folks to know. And if they don't offer a refund or replacement, that's good info to pass along as well -- especially for those who are currently shopping for a replacement turn signal switch...
As to why no one can seem to make a decent quality replacement switch, I would suspect largely because there is little economic incentive to produce and vend a higher quality / more dependable unit. The volume of demand for replacement ACVW turn signal switches is probably relatively small. And most are cheap enough where when they fail, the customers don't demand any refund from the vendor -- they simply huck them in the trash and try another, or refurb an EOM one, or just learn to live w/ the faulty switch.
As mentioned earlier, I'm still using the turn signal switch that was original to my car. There is one small crack in the plastic, at one of the rivets which hold the high beam contact switch in place, but it doesn't seem to affect the function at all. Rest of the plastic is totally intact and switch functions perfectly. I did clean and relube it several years ago, while refurbing bunch of other steering column details (plus also replaced the worn-down horn contact spring). So while the plastic in some OEM switches may have possibly gotten more brittle with age, that's certainly not been my own personal experience so far.
Here's a picture of that switch, right after the cleaning job, and initial attempt at replacing the horn contact spring (using screws in place of the original pop rivets):
Note that the metal screws used to secure the horn contact spring unintentionally grounded it to the metallic switch body underneath (i.e. horn was on all the time once connected -- doh!), so I had to remove those and switch to nylon screws, which corrected the problem:
This was all done back somewhere around 2016-2017 time frame, IIRC. Has remained working flawlessly ever since - yay! _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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OldSchoolVW's Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020 Posts: 714 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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baldessariclan wrote: |
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong - WW is definitely one of my favorite vendors as well. I especially like the fact they (mostly) don't bother with peddling any of the more questionable / poorer quality parts for a lower price - they just offer one of most types of items, and it's probably about the best quality they can source at the time.
That said, all I'm suggesting is that if WW were to offer you a replacement or refund for the turn signal switch they sold to you, that's a valuable bit of information for folks to know. And if they don't offer a refund or replacement, that's good info to pass along as well -- especially for those who are currently shopping for a replacement turn signal switch...
As mentioned earlier, I'm still using the turn signal switch that was original to my car. There is one small crack in the plastic, at one of the rivets which hold the high beam contact switch in place, but it doesn't seem to affect the function at all. Rest of the plastic is totally intact and switch functions perfectly. I did clean and relube it several years ago, while refurbing bunch of other steering column details (plus also replaced the worn-down horn contact spring). So while the plastic in some OEM switches may have possibly gotten more brittle with age, that's certainly not been my own personal experience so far.
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Very nice restoration on your T/S switch! Great idea to use the nylon screws. (Don't suppose you'd like to get into the restoration biz like Bill @ Sparx Werks and Tim @ VolkzBitz ... ) I see that small crack you were talking about. Probably wouldn't hurt to put a drop of super glue on it next time you're in there to help keep it from opening up any further.
Yes, I understand your point about seeing how they would handle a T/S switch partial failure after a year of use. I suspect they might offer to send another. Since I really don't want to go to the time and aggravation to R&R a switch that is working well except for the self-canceling feature, it really isn't a solution I'm interested in ... especially if they want me to ship the old one back to them at my expense. (I can see where they'd like to look it over to see if they can determine why it failed since they have it made for them.). I know they have a "support the customer in their project" mindset. I accidentally ordered the incorrect carpet kit once (one of the pieces was for a different configuration than I had). I called to explain my goof and without hesitation they sent the piece I needed, no charge, that day ... I was back in business the following afternoon. That's customer service.
I completely agree with your comment about them not peddling "lower price point" alternatives. Our success really seems to matter to them so they want to offer the best quality parts they can get. _________________ Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6627 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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baldessariclan wrote: |
As mentioned earlier, I'm still using the turn signal switch that was original to my car. There is one small crack in the plastic, at one of the rivets which hold the high beam contact switch in place, but it doesn't seem to affect the function at all. Rest of the plastic is totally intact and switch functions perfectly. I did clean and relube it several years ago, while refurbing bunch of other steering column details (plus also replaced the worn-down horn contact spring). So while the plastic in some OEM switches may have possibly gotten more brittle with age, that's certainly not been my own personal experience so far.
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Where's the writeup on how to do this? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
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Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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baldessariclan Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1385 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:16 am Post subject: Re: New turn signal switch not self cancelling/bright won't stay on |
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heimlich wrote: |
Where's the writeup on how to do this? |
Marcel, I posted on this several years back - here's the link: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Note that I had actually tried 2 different aftermarket turn signal switches. But the first one was quite a bit earlier, and it was so crappy/hopeless right out of the box that I didn't even bother to mention it in that post. The second one (shown in the post pics) was the one I "harvested" the horn contact spring from.
IIRC, it was a fairly fiddly process getting the pop rivets removed so I could take the horn contact spring off the aftermarket switch -- required some careful drilling, prying, pulling, etc. w/ various small tools and instruments. But I was able to successfully remove it eventually...
Cleaning the switch was just a process of immersing & soaking it for a while in hot water mixed w/ laundry soap, followed by careful cleaning with toothbrushes, toothpicks, etc. to get as much of the old dirt, grease, and grime out as possible. Thoroughly rinsed, and then dried w/ compressed air plus time in a warm (not hot!) oven. And then finally lubed the cleaned switch with sparing applications of spray-on lithium grease in the sliding/contact areas.
Ever since then, that turn signal switch has worked well for me. I did pull the steering wheel and sprayed a little more lube in it a couple winters back, when it was pretty dry & cold out and turn cancelling action on switch was getting a little slower/stiffer. I put a fair amount of miles on that car every year (it's often my "fair-weather commuter"), so maybe using the switch regularly / frequently helps a bit with keeping it loosened up and working properly - ? Just a theory... _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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