Turn signal issue

[glookabill]

I have a 1970 beetle with pre-1970 front fenders and lights. With an incandescent bulb the turn signals flash like they should and the indicator inside the car does the same. I put LED bulbs in the turn signal and on the outside it flashes as it should, but on the inside the indicator flashes one time and that's it.
You can however still hear the clicking of the turn signal. What's up with that?

[bhartwell59]

Do you have an LED compliant flasher?
_________________
'74 Zambezi green Ghia vert, autostick, 103k
'87 Jeep Wrangler, 4.2, 334k

[OldSchoolVW's]

You'll need one of these. Contact them to determine which will work best with the LEDs you have.

https://www.ledlight.com/led-flashers.aspx
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"But I also have to say, for the umpty-umpth time, that life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all." William Goldman

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[bsairhead]

Try a 50 ohm resistor in series between the flasher and dash indicator.

[ashman40]

Rather than retype everything, here is a recent post of mine…

[mg50]

[ashman40]

[mg50]

ash man i’ll check all that and take pictures. you are a valuable resource for this forum for all things electric . please out live me.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia

engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight=

[mg50]

Need more info on your bulb+flasher arrangement.
posting images

What is the wattage of the turn indicator lamp in the speedometer? What are the wattage of the turn indicator lamps in the corners.
Speedo bulbs: Pretty sure it's those tiny 12v glass base, 1.2W as in other sockets on my speedo. But I didn't pull out flasher light socket assuming it seems to be the same type of socket that holds the tiny glass-based 1.2W bulbs.

Look at the corner lamps as they flash. Are they all the same brightness? They should all be 21W or 25W bulbs.
Seem to be same brightness. Difficulty ready bulb markings, see below.


Make sure the front dual filament bulb is flashing the brighter 21W filament and not the dimmer 5W filament.
On the RF the outer element in the bulb is the one blinking. I couldn’t read markings on the bulb base.
On the LF the inner element is the one blinking. I Tried pulling this bulb to read markings but it’s too corroded to remove. Also the PO has stuck some wire piece into the socket edge to make better contact with the neg. I think I’ll need to pull the light base unit out of the car.

Check that the speedometer is wired correctly.
I’ll read through your description more carefully and try to determine. I know this is a wiring mess though things seem to be working other than the RF turn blinker not blinking in the car other than one first blink, it’s blinking properly outside on RF, though at lower blink/clicking volume.

Do your OIL and GEN lamps turn ON with the ignition before you start the engine?
Yes oil and gen lights come on as they should and go off after engine starts.

_________________
1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia

engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight=

[ashman40]

[mg50]

You have an OE 4-prong flasher relay. It has a dedicated KBL terminal.
As a test, try moving the wire from the KBL terminal and temporarily connect it to the 49a terminal. Alligator clips work great here.
If doing this results in the turn indicator lamp working as expected you know the problem is with the flasher relay. If there is no change, the problem is with the wiring or the corner lamps. Maybe the turn signal switch.
Result: now no flashing at all.

Another test is to remove the #49a and the #49 wires from the flasher relay and connect the wires together. This bypasses the flasher relay. Test your turn signals. The corner lamps will not flash but they should turn ON brightly and remain ON. This confirms the wiring and the switch are working.
Corner lights come on but do not flash just as you indicated. LF is less bright than RF.

If this works, add the turn indicator lamp back into the mix. Connect the end of the speedomater indicator wire to the end of the 49a wire. Keep the end of the 49 wire separate. Have a helper watch the corner lamps and the speedometer indicator lamp while you simulate the flasher function. Your helper moves the turn signal switch into the right turn position while the ignition switch is ON. The indicator lamp should turn ON and remain ON.
YES it turns on.

Now you touch the 49 wire to the joined 49a and speedometer indicator wires. The corner lamps should turn ON and the indicator lamp should turn OFF.
YES it does.
Disconnect the 49 wire and the indicator lamp should turn ON while the corner lamps turn OFF.
YES it does
If you repeat you should see the same pattern until the turn signal switch is recentered.
Repeat the test with the turn signal switch in the left turn position.
YES
If this doesn't work you know the problem is in the wiring/switch/bulbs and not the flasher relay since it is not connected. If it works, it suggests the flasher relay (which looks original) could be failing. Try with an aftermarket EP-35 flasher relay from your FLAPS. The EP-35 is a 3-prong LED compatible flasher relay designed to work with VW turn signals. The turn indicator lamp is connected to the 49a terminal. You may need to also pick up a terminal splitter that turns a single male terminal into 2 male terminals.
Yes, test seems to indicate I'll try a new flasher if I’m understanding correctly? Might need some help on where the wires go on a FLAP 3 3 prong when I had a marked 4 prong. And might as well get a new bulb for RF.
Thanks
_________________
1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia

engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight=

[mg50]

Hey Ashman40, can you look at my diagram and tell me where the wires go converting from the stock 4 post flasher to the ep35 type 3 post? BTW, in my case none of my bulbs are LED but assuming this flasher works also with regular bulbs?

_________________
1971 Super Beetle & 1971 Karmann Ghia

engine rebuild: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775424&highlight=

[ashman40]

The flasher relay in your pic isn’t marked “EP35” anywhere. I’ve not tested the CF14 flasher relay so can’t say for certain if it can be used as a replacement, or not.

The labels that are associated with the stock flasher relay and the EP35 terminal are as follows:

31 = - (ground)
49 = + (power from fuse)
49a = L (output to corner lamps)

Move the KBL (speedometer indicator) wire to the 49a terminal along with the blue wire already there.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[mg50]

[mg50]

[ashman40]

Good job isolating to narrow down where your problem is located.

I would suggest you look closer at why the L and R front turn signals are not the same brightness?? Could be a bulb going bad or a bad ground on one side? Or it could be something physical like a rusty reflector.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[mg50]