1977 Fuel Injected Standard Project Page

[busdaddy]

A hard stop on gravel usually exposes non working wheels. But a fault in the hydraulics will also make the light come on only when the pedal is pressed, if yours is on all the time it's more likely a switch or the wiring to blame.

Or is the parking brake on?
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[dopeboat]

Replaced both brake light switches and nothing changed, but in the end I got it sorted - I had replaced the light module itself, which includes the seatbelt light. I thought I’d gotten an exact replacement - turns out they were slightly different in the way they’re wired. Plugged the old switch back in and voila!

However, now I’m dealing with a few separate issues.

#1 - my valves on the driver’s side head keep getting loose and clacky and I can’t figure out why. They have new adjusters on them. I know it’s bad for valves to get tight after a rebuild, but haven’t heard so much about them getting loose again and again. I’ve put less than 500 miles on this rebuilt engine and I’ve had to adjust the valves three or four times. Prime suspect is #4 exhaust valve. There also seems to be some HOT debate over whether valves are supposed to get tighter or looser as an engine warms up…

#2 - there’s a pronounced CLUNK heard and felt when I let out the clutch when taking off from a dead stop, as well as when going from first to second, and second to third, although each subsequent gear change is softer. No sound from third to fourth. Tribal wisdom indicates this is either a bad front transmission mount or big bad news for the transmission internals. Would love to hear people’s thoughts.
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[busdaddy]

Loosening valves could be the nuts holding the rocker assemblies to the head loosening, or cam or lifter wear, let's all hope it's loose nuts....

For the clunk put it in 1st gear with the engine off and have a couple helpers at each end of the car push it back and forth while you listen for the clunks source.
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[dopeboat]

[busdaddy]

The .006 is to allow for expansion of the aluminum push rods mostly, why aren't yours growing faster than the cylinders?
Do you have a working thermostat?, what temps are the oil reaching when warmed up?, what oil are you running?
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[dopeboat]

Oooooooooooh. I do have a working thermostat, I tested it before reinstalling, although it was disconnected when I bought the car so I had no guidance on placement. I adopted the theory that at full open thermostat, the flaps should be full open, so I adjusted accordingly. I'm running Shell Rotella straight 30, knowing I won't be driving the car any time in winter temps. The oil temperature does indeed not get as high as it should - maybe 130F. That was an issue I'd planned to address in the future, though I thought it might have been due to the placement I chose for the temp sender - front pressure relief plug.

I guess it would stand to reason that if the oil running through the pushrods is not getting hot enough, they won't expand enough, and I'll get clacky valves when the engine gets warm because the cylinders are expanding ahead of the pushrods.

I'll adjust my thermostat and see what happens!
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[dopeboat]

Well here's the next conundrum - I'm already out of adjustment on my thermostat. If I disconnect the bracket and pull the whole thing downward until it stops (flaps closed, I assume), here's where I end up. As you can see, I'm outside of the range of the slot on the bracket. Not really sure where to go from here aside from pulling the whole fan shroud to adjust it. I suppose I could try and introduce a new bend in the rod which would shorten it, seems risky though.

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[Root_Werks]

That's the first time I've ever heard of cylinders out expanding stock pushrods. Biazzare.

As a test, the flaps fail open so you could just disconnect the T-Stat and run the Bug on the freeway for a while. Would hope the valve lash would quiet down.

Curious how this one will get resolved.

-Dan
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When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?

[busdaddy]

If the bracket won't slide down far enough to get full flap closure the problem is the U link on the RH flap where the rod attaches, unfortunately it requires removing the shroud to fix. The U gets bent when someone trys to lift the shroud without removing the thermostat first ("why won't this thing come off?"... yank yank YanK), the bend screws up the leverage ratio or in other words moves the fulcrum.
Disconnecting the thermostat and hitting the highway won't make it warmer, it'll keep it from ever warming up properly. For now set it as low as you can and tolerate the clacking valves, at least if they are making noise you know they aren't tightening up and burning.

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[dopeboat]

[Root_Werks]

That's a good thought (relief valve). If you're running oil through the cooler 100% of the time, it may only ever get to operating temp on long drives.

Do you see foam on the oil filler and cap like this:

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When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?

[Root_Werks]

My FI Mexi-Bug did that until I installed flaps and T-stat. Hasn't done it since, warms up much quicker, oil temp rises quicker and stays more consistent.
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When I set my timing, why do I flush, then take a pee?

[dopeboat]

Not even a bit of foam on the cap or in the filler tube. I'm tempted to pull the sender and relief valve/spring to see what's going on in there. I am however just throwing money away on oil at this point, which I realize is a drop in the bucket compared to running a new engine too cool, but something has to be said about it.

I'm also finding some conflicting opinions out there regarding placement of the temp sender in the front pressure relief port - some say it just gives you the temperature of the case, not the oil, which I think is possibly a fair point given I'm not sure how much "real temp" oil actually gets past the plunger to the sender... I've considered relocating the sender to the sump plug on the chance the "too-cool oil" is really fine.

I suppose at the end of the day, the symptom of the increasing valve lash is still there, regardless of what the oil temp is doing. The oil temp may be a red herring. #1/2 side sounds fine when hot. #3/4 is clacky as hell, and upon pulling valve covers, #4 is the culprit, particularly the exhaust. Maybe I'm getting sticky lifters when hot? Maybe I have some bum pushrods? Now is maybe a good time to mention that while I said I'm running stock pushrods, I'm really running whatever pushrods came on the engine - they were in fine shape, so I reused them, and they are nonferrous, so I've assumed they're aluminum, and therefore, the stock ones.

I'm at a loss, and while the noise is bothersome, I'm really just mostly concerned about the health and longevity of my rebuilt engine, which I've sunk a rather large sum of money into...
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[busdaddy]

That front hole really doesn't see alot of action, but instead of buying more oil invest in a laser thermometer gun, then you can shoot the sump plate, and the best spot which is right beside the oil pump on the back of the sump.
If the pushrods weren't magnetic then they are most likely stock, I guess if you have nothing better to do you could swap them into a position on the 1/2 side and see if the noises follow, or just set the #4 valves a few thou tight and turn up the radio.
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[dopeboat]

Well I switched back to SAE30, and pulled my relief and control valves to get a look at them. The relief valve plunger was heavily scored when I rebuilt the engine, and doesn't look any worse now. I had sanded it down slightly to remove any proud spots while I had the engine apart but it moved freely in the bore so I saw no reason to replace it. It still moves freely in the bore so I guess it's fine. Same with control valve.

I went to move my temp sender over to the sump drain plug spot, only to realize that, obviously, the two have different size threads. So I've got a drain plug sender on order.

I did adjust the #4 valves tighter (about 4-thou cold) and it seems to have helped a bit. Will report back on oil temps when my sender arrives.
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[dopeboat]

Well the sender is taking its damn time to arrive - in the meantime, I'm encountering another situation I'm not quite sure what to make of. I've begun to notice a sound on acceleration when the engine is under load, which I immediately assumed was an exhaust leak. Kind of a "chuffing" sound. I'm uncertain if it's new, or been there since the rebuild and gone unnoticed because of the noise on the valvetrain, which I've only just calmed down by gapping #4 valves to 0.004".

Fearing a head was at best loose and at worst cracked, or somehow a burned valve, I did a compression and leakdown test. Compressions were 130 across the board, leakdown also revealed nothing, each cylinder offering a 5 psi running drop from 90 at TDC.

Getting underneath, nothing appears out of order, where I'd expect a compression or exhaust leak between head and cylinder or head and exhaust to present with visible soot spots.

The bottom line is, the engine just sounds a bit "lawn-mowerish" under acceleration, but only under load. Is that just what the FI beetles sound like? Can anybody point me towards a video of a properly running FI beetle for me to compare to? I'm much more used to the typical sounds made by carbureted beetles.

See below a few videos I took trying to capture the noise. It's super hard to capture on video, and again it may literally just be my perception of it. I know I'm becoming a mechanical hypochondriac with the car. Unfortunately the dash speaker is so crappy I find myself driving with the radio off, which prompts me to be listening for noises.


Link



Link

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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1

[Lost69Convertible]

I listened to your videos a few times. Your exhaust sounds a lot different than mine. Beyond that, there's a hesitation and roughness as your engine revs up. Instead, it should be very smooth. I have a few questions:

1. How long did you run the engine before taking the videos. Was the engine hot or cold?

2. Do you have the cold air intake snorkel in place? If so, does the temperature activated flap work properly?

I'll try to post a video of my engine revving up for comparison.
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1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible

[dopeboat]

[busdaddy]

Have a good close look around the bases of the cylinders, my crappy lap top speakers don't really let me hear anything odd, but a noise under power and growing valve gaps could be a case stud(s) starting to pull out.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

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[Lost69Convertible]