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cabinfourus
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2022
Posts: 10
Location: NC
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 Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:00 pm Post subject: Help with head ID |
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I am rebuilding some heads and need some help with the identification of the heads. The casting numbers on both heads are 022.101.372. There are no letters at the end of the numbers.
I am pretty sure these are the 1700cc Porsche heads, but I want a second and third opinion.
I need to replace the valve guides and want to make sure I order the correct ones. Do these heads use any valve guides? I see some listed on eBay for the Porsche 1700.
Also, is there a difference between the bus head and the Porsche heads?
Thanks for the help  |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22505
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Help with head ID |
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| cabinfourus wrote: |
I am rebuilding some heads and need some help with the identification of the heads. The casting numbers on both heads are 022.101.372. There are no letters at the end of the numbers.
I am pretty sure these are the 1700cc Porsche heads, but I want a second and third opinion.
I need to replace the valve guides and want to make sure I order the correct ones. Do these heads use any valve guides? I see some listed on eBay for the Porsche 1700.
Also, is there a difference between the bus head and the Porsche heads?
Thanks for the help |
The 411/412 heads and early bus heads and 914 heads are the exact same casting and valve size. There are no differences.
However, there are very slight differences in quality from letter number to letter number. None that shoudl give you any pause.
The real key first is to but your new valves. Ideally, at this tage in the game all type 4 based engines above 100k miles ....especially if you do not know the history...should have the valve seats replaced.
Have your valve stems measured and a good type 4 fluent head shop inspect and measure the valve guides. It is not typically valve guide wear that requires guide replacement. Its the fact that heat cycling makes them loose in their bores.
So if there is any wear at all, typically just pulling out the old guides makes the holes they were in too loose. So you need first oversized guides.
Automobile atlanta sells some. But if your head builder says you need something slightly larger then you need custom guides. About 50% need custom oversized guides and they are not really any more expensive.
The correct interference fit is key. I have it written down somehwreand I will check tonight but its ~0.002" at about 220*...do not quote me on that until I check. The numbers i have were goven to me by Len at Ham INC. he knows better than anyone.
If you need custom oversized the guys at SI valves can set you up easy. I will get all of the info in the am. Ray |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 301
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Help with head ID |
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| yup 1700 heads |
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cabinfourus
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2022
Posts: 10
Location: NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Help with head ID |
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Great information! Thank you.
The valve guides that are in the heads are in excellent shape, but I plan to replace them anyway. These heads look to be already rebuilt, but I don't want to assume.
I misspoke when I asked if they had valve guides. I meant valve seals. The reason I ask is that I found a couple of o-ring type seals on the valve stems.
I purchased new valves, and I am looking for springs now. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 22505
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help with head ID |
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| cabinfourus wrote: |
Great information! Thank you.
The valve guides that are in the heads are in excellent shape, but I plan to replace them anyway. These heads look to be already rebuilt, but I don't want to assume.
I misspoke when I asked if they had valve guides. I meant valve seals. The reason I ask is that I found a couple of o-ring type seals on the valve stems.
I purchased new valves, and I am looking for springs now. |
Just a question but how are you measuring the guides to judge them to be OK?
The rock test with a dial indicator that is in the shop manuals....is OK.....but only if exactly performed at the right lift height and with a good, tightly mounted dial indicator.
A more accurate method is to take the heads to a GOOD automotive machine shop that specializes in heads and has the correct 3 point micrometer to measure small bores or are very practiced with telescopic gauges. Then subtract the diameter of the valve stems and consult the book.
Not saying it's not worth it to change the guides. It is. But if they are in spec to your valves and are tight in the head, unless you are working with a good shop that has VW TYPE 4 head experience.....you might leave them alone.
In my book.....if you are replacing guides.....you should have new valves as well. Also it's worthwhile to do the quick and dirty 400° test and 6" drop in the oven to check for loose seats.
Also while they do make valve stem seals for type 4.....our heads do not require or need them. They are or were sometimes used to keep excessive oil from combustion and causing emissions issues.....so mainly in California.
Ray |
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cabinfourus
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2022
Posts: 10
Location: NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Help with head ID |
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| I had to take a break from this project, but I am able to come back to it now. Can someone recommend a place to purchase the seats? |
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