Summer engine into 68 Westy - questions

[soissisc]

I found some time to get the stock fuel pump installed, and it appears that fuel pressure (or volume) is back to what I am used to seeing. The bus starts right back up after sitting a few minutes, so it leads me to believe that it was flooding a bit before. I just need to verify no fuel starvation at sustained higher RPMs. (And get some true 6mm braided fuel line, as this 1/4" flaps fuel line makes me nervous that it is going to slip off under pressure!

Oh, and my generator is not charging again...
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

I ended up testing the generator, and got no charge output. So I took a look at the brushes (maybe moved them around a little bit) and it miraculously started charging again. The red light in the dash turned off and everything.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

This morning I took the plunge and decided to drive the bus up and down the driveway. It is the first time it has moved under it's own power since, hmm - not sure, maybe 2018? Anyhow, a long time. It was a somewhat triumphant moment!

I was very low on gas, so did not wish to go too far, but it was a success! I even made it to 3rd gear! A good bath is in order, hub caps, corner reflectors, adjust clutch a little, and then maybe another slightly longer drive?

How do you know where to point the snout on the air cleaner?
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

I have been driving the bus around some to further break in the engine. Even with the stock fuel pump, I am somewhat plagued with a difficult start once I have driven 10 or 15 minutes and turn the bus off. It is no matter if don't touch the pedal, flick the pedal, pump once, pump twice, etc, I almost always have to hold the pedal to the floor while cranking for it to eventually start. I was thinking that may be a flooding condition?

I am running a rebuilt 30PICT1 and a rebuilt 205K distributor. Dwell is right at 46 degrees, timing is, right now, 30 BTDC at 3k rpm (full advance). I was around 28 BTDC and it seemed a little bit gutless so I bumped it up and it did make a bit of a difference in the guts department. It is single port 1600 with stock exhaust.

This carb does not have the idle cut off solenoid, would that make a difference?

Does anyone have any ideas on other things to check? I was thinking about this : drive some and then park it. Look inside the carb throat to see if any gas is visible coming through the carb when turned off. That might show a needle valve problem?

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

I have been driving the bus some more. Warm starts seem to have calmed down and I just think I was over thinking things a little bit earlier on.

I am getting a lot of smiles per mile around here.

Thanks.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[jlrftype7]

[soissisc]

[soissisc]

Hello all, I hope that fall, winter, and spring have been kind to you.

I drove the bus pretty trouble free all fall, and it was garaged during the snowy and salty months. I have been driving it every so often here in the spring now, and we ran into a small inconvenient problem that just developed pretty much out of nowhere. One warm day we took the bus to the grocery store and it ran just fine on the way there, and then upon picking up some groceries it cranked longer than normal on a warm start but did start, and drove normally, until you would be slowing down and the engine would be coming down to idle - it would stall. Every time on the way home when I hit a stop light even pushed the clutch in and the engine went to idle, it would die out. Even to start it, you had to feather the gas to keep it running.

I noticed the coil was pretty warm when I got home, so I swapped in another coil after a few hours and it fired right up and idled fine. Perhaps the coil acted funny when warm?

Fast forward a few days later (today) and when I fired up the bus to run downtown, it idled fine, but once I drove about a 1/2 a mile and came to stop it died out at idle. So I drove a little bit further (about another mile) and it did the same thing when coming to a stop (died returning to idle).

We decided to turn back and head home, and upon pulling in the driveway it died at idle. I thought about it and adjusted the choke to be fully open, and it seemed to respond by not dying at idle. I had turned up the idle some to try to combat the stalling but that did seem to help, so at this time I turned the idle back down a little bit.

We decided to head back into town and it ran fine the whole time to our destination (about 15 minutes and several stop lights and stop signs with no stalling). I turned off the bus for about a 1/2 hour and upon returning to fire it back up, it would not idle. Like you have to take your foot off of the gas (from feathering the gas pedal) to hit the brake and it immediately dies. After 4 or 5 restarts, it was fine to drive a few miles a a few stops, with no stalling. We shut it down to grab a coffee (maybe 15 minutes) and come back and it fires up fine, back out of a parking place, drive down the street a block to the first stop sign and it dies. The next two or three stop signs it dies instantly when returning to idle.

We go for a walk for about 30 to 45 minutes, and it starts up fine and drives home without stall, through many red lights and stop signs, and even pulling up to the garage a perfect idle.

Strange for sure, to me. I am running a rebuilt 30PICT1 and a rebuilt 205K distributor. The carb doesn't have a fuel cut off valve. It has been a pretty flawless set up up until these past couple of days.

We are hoping to take a bit of a camping trip this weekend, so I hope to get a handle on this intermittent stalling when returning to idle issue.

I plan to recheck timing and dwell in the meantime here.

Thanks for your input!

Mark
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Rag00oll]

Dying at a stop is usually in my experience a blocked idle jet. Just needs cleaned out and it shouldn’t do it anymore.

I also live in Western PA, been driving my early 68 westy all spring.

Cheers!

[soissisc]

That is what I was thinking also. It has seemingly cleared up for the moment but I may pull it out and blow it out.

We are heading out on a little road trip tomorrow, so hopefully all goes well!
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

The "stall at idle" problem seems to have gone away. I did adjust the choke to be holding the choke arm open when hot. I am not sure if that is what helped or ?

We took a little 600+ mi (total) trip over the holiday weekend to see a concert at Bethel Woods NY, the original site of Woodstock. There were 4 adults and all of our camping stuff loading the bus down. We had no real problems to speak of, the bus did fantastic even being so loaded down. I planned the flattest course that I could come up with, but still had to cross the Appalachian Mtns to get to some flat roads, and then into the outer Catskills once closer to the campground.

Do you all try to plan a "flattest route" when travelling in the bus? I used google maps and then refered to the "flattestroute" website to pick and choose roads to travel. Unfortunately there was no way to save my customized route from google maps so we somewhat ended up winging it.

We had some chilly temps, rain, and wind for the weekend. We managed to get stuck in the mud at the campground.

We did have to adjust the clutch on the way home. It was getting impossible to get into 1st gear without turning the engine off. One full revolution of the clutch adjustment wingnut got the shifter working perfectly again. Cable stretch or ?

Anyway, thanks for all of the help and putting up with my dumb questions.

Mark
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Bus update and a few questions...

We took a trip in the bus from our home just North of Pittsburgh PA to Cape May New Jersey at the Southern tip of the state. It was roughly 400 miles each way. This was the hottest weather yet that we have travelled in with the new engine.

I have been having an ongoing issue of a more difficult to start engine when up to temp. When the engine is cold, it fires over immediately. Just blip the key and it is running. Once up to temp though, I hit the key and slowly depress the pedal until it is floored and only then will it fire up. The starter starts to slow after cranking that long, and it makes me nervous every time like - is it going to start?

Thinking maybe vapor lock I put rubber fuel line over the metal fuel line from the tank to the pump. That really did not make a change. There is not really any bubbling that I can see in the fuel filter between the pump and the carb. So I kind of think that vapor lock is not the issue.

It seems that maybe the carb is flooding when hot? I plan to pull the top of the carb off and check the float height and then also the needle valve. Other than that can anyone suggest anything else to look at? It is a 30PICT1 with no idle shut off valve. It has a stock refurbished fuel pump, but I have not measured the fuel pressure yet. That is on my list of things to do.

Then there was oil temps. It was sunny in the 90's and humid out. HOT for around here. So on the expressway doing 55 to 60 the temps would ride in the 230 - 240 range. If we hit a long uphill grade where I had to down shift to 3rd and be wound out tight for a bit - or venture to 60 - 65 in 4th on the flats for a bit, the temps would rise more toward 260. I tried to keep it down to 50 - 55 mph and the temps would get down to the 230 is range. Sometimes that is hard on an expressway with a 70 mph speed limit. People are nuts on the highways I have come the conclusion.

The last engine was an upright converted type 4 engine and the oil temps never really got much higher that 200°. And I have read on here that the type 1 engine has higher oil temps to begin with, I guess that I am just concerned or looking for reassurance.

I am running a dipstick vdo oil temp gauge. The same setup was on the upright converted type 4 engine. I have a doghouse oil cooler setup, it is a B case and it does have dual relief with 10mm oil passages.

Thanks for reading.

_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

I got my hands on an idle cut off jet try instead of just the idle jet. I also installed a larger main jet to to make sure the engine is not running lean at higher rpms. I had a 120 in there, I bumped it up to 1275 since that is all I had on hand. I ordered a 1225 and a 125, so I should have some options. With the 1275 I have noticed more power at higher rpm rather the that "you have hit the ceiling" feeling.

I will report back with more results later.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

I ended up getting 500 miles or so on the new main jet this weekend.
I wanted to pull a plug and see what it looked like.

I expected a little carbon, but what do you guys think? This is after a few thousand miles or so with the 120 main jet and then 500 or so with the 127.5 main jet . I expected some carbon but it really may have been running lean really lean on the 120? Should just stay here for a while longer and check again or try maybe a 130 main?

It did for sure have better drivability in the higher rpms with the larger main jet. Ambient air temps were lower (60s -70s vs 90s +), but it did run a lot cooler oil temps on this trip with the 127.5 main jet. 200° +/- 10° I would say vs 220°- 240° and even 260° on a long 3rd gear hill climb with the 120 main.

Your thoughts are appreciated!

Mark
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[SGKent]

I had a 1600 with a 34-pict 3 and ran a 125 or 127.5 most of its life.

As to the hard to start when hot issue, read the owners manual on that. I think you want to hold it on the floor when it cranks until it starts and clears out. As long as your oil level is not increasing from gasoline percolating into the cylinders when it sits, it is what it is. The way manufacturers got around it in general was to install a small bleed orifice at the carb and let the pressure go back to the tank in a return line. It also kept the fuel constantly circulating and cooler when it was running.
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"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it." - George Carlin

[67rustavenger]

Mark, Curious, what's you ignition timing set at?

Your plug indicates it pretty far advanced.
Generally/ideally, you'd see a heat tint at/near the bend in the sparkplug ground strap.
Yours appears to be closer to the threaded part of your sparkplug, indicating advanced timing.
Kind of like this appears,

_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas!

[soissisc]

Thank you for the reply SGKent. It definitely ran better with the larger jet. I may go for a 130 just to see if it gets carbon or not.

As far as the starting, it was better for sure this trip. I did add the idle cut off but that is not supposed to help that. I am going to check the fuel pressure also to be sure that is not high. But it was better this trip.

I did have one incident out of the blue yesterday where I parked and the bus was sitting at an angle. Like the driver side was 10" or 12" higher than the passenger side. Anyway, it started right up and then bogged out and died when I went to pull out. I tried to restart it and it acted really flooded. I slowly pressed the gas to the floor and it seemed to try catch but not enough to actually start. I went back and looked everything over in the engine compartment and it all looked ok. I checked that the idle cut off was clicking when the key was turned and it was. So I waited a bit and tried it and got it to start and it smelled really gassy and a lot of smokey exhaust it cleared out after a bit and was fine the rest of the 4 hour drive the rest of the way home.

Could how the van was sitting cause it to easily flood the carb?

Thanks for your advice SGKent, I hope that you are healing up well

Mark
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Rustavenger, I had set the timing to 7.5 before tdc at 850-950 rpm with vac hose off and plugged. I have a vacuum only advance distributor that I had rebuilt by the guy on here, I forget his name, sorry. It is a stock dist paired with the 30pict1.

I read that you can't set a vac only advance dist with total advance at max rpm since it uses vacuum under load or no load or something. ?
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Guys, this is interesting stuff. Thanks.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[67rustavenger]

Ok Mark, What's the heat range on your sparkplugs?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas!