Advice Needed: What to expect separating body from pan on a 1954

[mkhanshaw]

Hello Sage Samba Members -

Right to it, I have resolved to have Washburn Metal in Orange, California refurbish my 1954 Pan.

A bit of storytime you can skip if you like: My car has front end damage on the framehead, and has rusted through some peekaboo spots on the battery tray like they all seem to do.

Best I can tell, the car has been a California car most of its life and not "sitting in salt water" from a rust perspective.

Ive gone back and forth about trying to "repair in place" the framehead and the battery tray...going as far as to buy sheet metal replacements for both.

By the time ive got someone lined up to do the metal fab work, it would be better to just tackle the whole pan.

I went over the holidays to Washburn and had a great intro to what they do, and walked away knowing I am going to do some upgrades to my pan (additional spot welds for strength, two fuel lines run to set up for fuel injection, convert to IRS and a few other fun things)

Now then - Washburn says they do not do the separation...only bring them a pan and get a refinished one back. Ok fine.

I have never separated a body from the pan. I looked at Youtube videos and everything seems within my mechanical wheelhouse to tackle.

What I do NOT have is the experience knowledge.

By example:
A) If I start working on the body bolts along the sides, do I run the risk of damage from simply trying to carefully remove them? Like if my heater channels are shot....am I asking for trouble and the bolts will just break from whatever remaining rusty metal is there holding them and leave me assed out?
B) What else am I needing to know that most of the internet does not? I know to disconnect speedo cable, steering column, master cylinder reservoir up front..and the rear stuff seems easily identified....what else? Like to me removing the motor AFTER the body pull seems a lot easier. The only benefit to doing beforehand is not having to lift the body off so high...am I wrong?

I know to try and soak with PB Blaster or other penetrating lubes on the bolts liberally before trying to free them.

I know to not use an impact gun even though I have one.

I guess I just have this unruly fear from not doing this before..especially on a 1950's Beetle.

I'd love to just take my car to a shop that knows what to do but seems like there are not any in So Cal or Central Cal where I live. Seems odd!

Anyway - thoughts and experience is appreciated!
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54 Oval

[phillmore]

If you have a strong shell, other than the previous frame head crash damage, then you may be lucky to get the bolts out from the heater channel without much agrevation. So, the likelihood is that some will have corrosion and will spin as you try to free them from the captive bolts, or the heater channel closing panel may be weakened from internal corrosion; the question is simply- do you have the necessary time, skill and patience to repair any unexpected damage?
Start by drenching whatever you can with penetrating fluids, and try sampling how firm some bolts appear to be, but slacken and re tighten adding lube until you are confident they are willing to come out.
Photos - keep a good record to aid future reassembly.

[mkhanshaw]

[esde]

So, there is a feel for when you are going to break a bolt VS loosen it. And often there isn't much to do about it. How you fix or remove the broken bits is a skill learned and perfected over time. It's a PITA, but almost always doable. I once did have to drill and re tap the threads in 75% of the pan bolts, on my back under the body. It was a low point in the learning curve for sure. I usually start trying to loosen them, and if they are stiff turning, then go clockwise a bit, then reverse again... and keep going back and forth as you loosen them completely. If you can, get some penetrating oil in there but it's hard to do upside down..
Good luck!
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[mkhanshaw]

[my3bugs]

i removed a 51 body from a pan once when i was younger , i dont recall much trouble . did it all on the driveway . took off the doors , fenders n hoods and then a GIRL helped me lift it off the pan it wasn't as heavy as folks think .

Washburns did my pan repairs n got it powder coated for me . my pans wernt to bad and didnt need to be replaced but the naplolean hat , jack ports n other stuff all got fixed ......had to replace an in the tunnel heater cable tube as well , it had something stuck in it .

now im finally looking to put it back on the pan !!! i wanted a beautiful new paint job first but i just cant afford what shops want now days so id be happy to see it in primer ...

[mkhanshaw]

[Zwitter]

Having been in the autobody trade all my working career, when faced with possible bolt breakage we've always hit the bolt with an oxyacerylene torch flame until red. Let it cool completely before attempting removal.
You may have to heat again, you may not. Just go slow.

[VW_Jimbo]

No big deal! Don’t stress about broken bolts! They break. You extract them. Install a good one. No worries! It is all part of working on old cars!

So, buy a few steel nuts, a few steel washers and a MiG welder. Then get to work! Making that entombed threaded steel turn bright orangey red is just fun!

If you are close to HB, I would be willing to show you!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Rome]

[mkhanshaw]

[mkhanshaw]

[mkhanshaw]

[Rome]

"39 years old" but it came out of the NorthEast... Some of the 8 mm diameter pan to body bolts were corroded down to about 2/3 diameter, yet they did not break after using the impact gun! I'd imagine that applying heat from a torch as already mentioned, and then using the impact gun would give you the best chance of getting the bolts out without breaking.

[mkhanshaw]