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VWdilemma
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2024
Posts: 18
Location: Queensland
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 Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I wasn’t floating the Beastie Boys as the only cause. It was to suggest it may have been a contributor. |
Now I'm not a historian, but I don't think the beastie boys were around in the 1940's |
I’d be shocked if you’re qualified at anything after that comment |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| finster wrote: |
wagen19 - you poor deluded soul, all those useless repro emblems that you thought were rare originals!  I've looked through 'kleiner wagen...' - as you suggested it - but there is not a clear photo of the emblem.
...what does garwood say?  |
Hello "finster", obviously you took me completely wrong! Cool down please!
I´ve never stated, there were ever repros of un-gapped logos made at all. Not on my own cars, or since when ever on the market.
I asked only, if someone knows clear facts about, if there were known repros, since when, from whom. There are many possibilities.
For the moment I think, we all look only for a clear factory pic for a un-gapped logo on hood or dash to proove, what we believe.
I had my book "Kleiner Wagen..." not in hand, but know about a pic of a export inside, as a present for the lady, photographed from the balcony.
Pic clear or not, imo it´s quite possible from 49 on, till 52 there were more than only one supplier who made emblems, logos for VW, similar as screws.
Are there pics of the presenting of the export models, hebs, verts in 1949?
WHAT says Garwood?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=40
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=622142&highlight=hood+emblem
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495834&highlight=hood+emblem
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132574&highlight=hood+logo
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?
More here on samba or elsewhere?
Last edited by wagen19 on Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10513
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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wagen19, that was sarcasm. you had very clearly, and helpfully, written about the provenance of your cars and their emblems. it is mr dilemma who believes they are repros.
over the life span of the cars there would be no requirement for repro emblems to be made until they became restoration worthy and more value was put on authenticity - so we're looking at the 90s or later when people realised they needed an early style emblem. prior to this owners would just put any readily available nos/used vw emblem from the 50s and 60s on the car and be happy. so the fact that your cars had those emblems back in the 70s knocks a hole in his repro theory.
I look forward to seeing what comes back from vw, if he can be bothered to show the evidence...
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| finster wrote: |
wagen19, that was sarcasm. you had very clearly, and helpfully, written about the provenance of your cars and their emblems. it is mr dilemma who believes they are repros.
over the life span of the cars there would be no requirement for repro emblems to be made until they became restoration worthy and more value was put on authenticity - so we're looking at the 90s or later when people realised they needed an early style emblem. prior to this owners would just put any readily available nos/used vw emblem from the 50s and 60s on the car and be happy. so the fact that your cars had those emblems back in the 70s knocks a hole in his repro theory.
I look forward to seeing what comes back from vw, if he can be bothered to show the evidence... |
Aha! |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10513
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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this is the clearest shot from 'kleiner wagen'
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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RockStock
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 4242
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| VWdilemma wrote: |
| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I wasn’t floating the Beastie Boys as the only cause. It was to suggest it may have been a contributor. |
Now I'm not a historian, but I don't think the beastie boys were around in the 1940's |
I’d be shocked if you’re qualified at anything after that comment |
At least he has you all worked out, Scotty!
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-StockRocks- |
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Lowdown Dirty Rat
Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 892
Location: Cornwall, UK
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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The bit that gets me is that if VW show it is gospel.
Has he been to their museum? Seen the ‘49 panel for example?
More errors than your average first time garage build.
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1951 Samba 20-017894
1952 Samba 20-028952 |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 10268
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I wasn’t floating the Beastie Boys as the only cause. It was to suggest it may have been a contributor. |
Now I'm not a historian, but I don't think the beastie boys were around in the 1940's |
Maybe they hitched a ride in the Delorean to let people know of their rights to party, and spread some repro badges around at the same time?
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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idris
Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Land of Dragons
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Lind wrote: |
| Maybe they hitched a ride in the Delorean to let people know of their rights to party, and spread some repro badges around at the same time? |
5-star Hilarious! |
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VWdilemma
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2024
Posts: 18
Location: Queensland
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| idris wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
| Maybe they hitched a ride in the Delorean to let people know of their rights to party, and spread some repro badges around at the same time? |
5-star Hilarious! |
Boomer humour I guess... |
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Scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 1553
Location: Northampton - Uk
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Lind wrote: |
| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I wasn’t floating the Beastie Boys as the only cause. It was to suggest it may have been a contributor. |
Now I'm not a historian, but I don't think the beastie boys were around in the 1940's |
Maybe they hitched a ride in the Delorean to let people know of their rights to party, and spread some repro badges around at the same time? |
There we go, a logical explanation at last...
_________________
| EverettB wrote: |
I'd be curious to know the length of his tip.
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http://scottys-stuff.blogspot.com/ |
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Scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 1553
Location: Northampton - Uk
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busben
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008
Posts: 539
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Fake news |
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busben
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008
Posts: 539
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Making me miss my ‘51 standard with the early style Dash dude …. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| VWdilemma wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
| finster wrote: |
strong whiff of troll here... 
if you haven't any correspondence to show then it appears your bluff has been called. |
Sure looks like it. Joined last month, no pictures or useful contributions, now telling us all how it is without presenting any evidence. |
You don’t agree with me so I’m a troll? Wow. Don’t really know what to say to these comments, other than I’m surprised you haven’t reflected and deleted them already. It’s kinda pathetic and says way more about you than me.
| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I’m certainly not the one who needs to prove a ‘theory’. |
Well seeing as pretty much everyone else is in agreement that the badges without a gap are genuine, then perhaps you do. |
I’m not going to keep repeating myself. If you can’t extract the logic from my previous comments, and don’t understand the hierarchy principles associated with testing a theory, then I guess just figure it out on your own? I’ll give you a couple of hints though - it doesn’t start and finish at assumptions made based on limited evidence. And a consensus of five or six people on a forum with a strong incentive to believe the theory doesn’t sit at the apex of that hierarchy.
| busben wrote: |
Just post the badges on your collection of split beetles, Barndoor deluxes, or even your NOS collection VWdilemma. Put the haters to shame 
I also agree with you that there was very little discussion of this subject on line a few decades ago before most people started using the internet. |
Agreed, the web has opened up more opportunities to engage with different theories. But I’ve also searched through many books published pre and post-2000 that specifically address each VW model, and I’ve never seen this emblem difference discussed or mentioned. It’s a pretty big difference imo. One that should have generated a lot of interest and discussion prior to 2000. Even this forum has been up since around then but the earliest mention is 2005.
I know that dealers like this one … https://www.vwperformance.com.au/product/Spare-Wheel-Cover-with-Logo-14-T2-Kombi… sell connected covers because they don’t have the rights to do otherwise. And I’m sure everyone here is aware how aggressively VW goes after copyright infringers. So I’m simply adding data points to the official word from VW and arriving at a logical conclusion. I mean, who’s to say the Beastie Boy craze in the 80’s didn’t spawn a whole lot of reproductions entering the mix? Having said everything that I’ve said, I’m not completely dismissive of the idea that VW either doesn’t have the concrete evidence to support their position definitively, and are possibly too embarrassed to admit that. Or that they’re maybe deliberately hiding this part of their history for whatever reason. But there’s just no real evidence or motivation that I can gather for such speculation.
But as I mentioned previously, I’m keen to hear from anyone who’s actually got some concrete evidence (other than more images of connected badges). Even genuine first hand anecdotal evidence I would fine interesting. The photo of Reimspiess with a large sketch of the connected logo is interesting. But without context, it’s just that. He looks around seventy plus years old which would make that circa 1970. So obviously years after the alleged connected logo theory. And it contradicts his logo design in the first place. It also needs to be adequately explained why VW would ever do this when they had the official gapped logo plastered nearly everywhere else in and around the beetle, even prior to ’49 (i.e. gear stick, speedometer, dash, pedals, hub caps, etc). Simply makes no sense. Other than perhaps an error, as suggested. But again, that’s another theory that needs proving on its own.
And yeah, haters be haters lol. But I won’t be posting my correspondence with VW as evidence for a few reasons; firstly, what difference would it make to the people here who assume to know better anyway? Secondly, my personal details are displayed. Which I suppose I could go to the trouble of redacting them, but that would be going to more trouble than I’m willing to. Especially when it’s so easy for anyone else to contact VW and ask basic questions. I will however post the contact page and email address for those seemingly incapable of using a keyboard beyond this forum:
https://www.volkswagen.de/de/besitzer-und-service/ueber-ihr-auto/hilfe-und-dialogcenter.html
[email protected]
If you’re not proficient in German, or can’t use the internet competently to translate German, then contact your countries English speaking counterpart. |
I think, there is no need to be too serious about that question or "problem".
Maybe in the book "Kleiner Wagen auf grosser Fahrt" 1949, there can be a pic of the earliest post war VW beetle hood emblems. Here I can say, my 9´49 and 3´50 splits which I have since 1970 and 1984, both have the old-style, no-gapped logos. My 7´50 split already has the newer gapped edition. All cars with original hoods, undamaged, unrestored. It´s known, at least in later years, VW had some different supplier for emblems, such as: a) "Lauer", Nuernberg, b) K.S.P., c) PuC about the same time. Who knows, when the first no-gapped "repro-emblems" appeared on market? My 49 was barn-stored in 1974 and when I got him in 1984, the un-gapped logo was present. For me, there is positivly no doubt, this version is original, probably till mid 1950. In 10´52 the beetle got a new style "unsolid" VW-emblem which was not used for busses, as far as I know. So I think it´s quite possible, that there were some left over parts, or even a new series of gapped or un-gapped were ordered.
Thinking about wheel caps since around May 1949 with the small logo. This logo has about the same size as the hood emblem. For the pressing process of the caps, a gap makes technical sense and is necessary for the rounded wheel caps, but not necessary for flat hood or dash emblems. My 9´49 has 3 original wheel caps (with only one hole), but of course, all have gaps on the caps. |
If you replace ‘serious’ for ‘curious’ , then you describe my sentiment accurately here. And thank you for the genuine information - especially the outsourced emblem supplier names. Appreciate you responding seriously. I have sent a request to VW to ask if they have photos that can confirm the gapped logo was affixed in 1949, as per their inferred claim. Being the first model to carry this on the hood, you would expect so. I will let know how they respond. |
Hello VW dilemma, more than 3 months are over now. Still no response? |
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VWdilemma
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2024
Posts: 18
Location: Queensland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| Lind wrote: |
| finster wrote: |
strong whiff of troll here...
if you haven't any correspondence to show then it appears your bluff has been called. |
Sure looks like it. Joined last month, no pictures or useful contributions, now telling us all how it is without presenting any evidence. |
You don’t agree with me so I’m a troll? Wow. Don’t really know what to say to these comments, other than I’m surprised you haven’t reflected and deleted them already. It’s kinda pathetic and says way more about you than me.
| Scotty wrote: |
| VWdilemma wrote: |
| I’m certainly not the one who needs to prove a ‘theory’. |
Well seeing as pretty much everyone else is in agreement that the badges without a gap are genuine, then perhaps you do. |
I’m not going to keep repeating myself. If you can’t extract the logic from my previous comments, and don’t understand the hierarchy principles associated with testing a theory, then I guess just figure it out on your own? I’ll give you a couple of hints though - it doesn’t start and finish at assumptions made based on limited evidence. And a consensus of five or six people on a forum with a strong incentive to believe the theory doesn’t sit at the apex of that hierarchy.
| busben wrote: |
Just post the badges on your collection of split beetles, Barndoor deluxes, or even your NOS collection VWdilemma. Put the haters to shame
I also agree with you that there was very little discussion of this subject on line a few decades ago before most people started using the internet. |
Agreed, the web has opened up more opportunities to engage with different theories. But I’ve also searched through many books published pre and post-2000 that specifically address each VW model, and I’ve never seen this emblem difference discussed or mentioned. It’s a pretty big difference imo. One that should have generated a lot of interest and discussion prior to 2000. Even this forum has been up since around then but the earliest mention is 2005.
I know that dealers like this one … https://www.vwperformance.com.au/product/Spare-Wheel-Cover-with-Logo-14-T2-Kombi… sell connected covers because they don’t have the rights to do otherwise. And I’m sure everyone here is aware how aggressively VW goes after copyright infringers. So I’m simply adding data points to the official word from VW and arriving at a logical conclusion. I mean, who’s to say the Beastie Boy craze in the 80’s didn’t spawn a whole lot of reproductions entering the mix? Having said everything that I’ve said, I’m not completely dismissive of the idea that VW either doesn’t have the concrete evidence to support their position definitively, and are possibly too embarrassed to admit that. Or that they’re maybe deliberately hiding this part of their history for whatever reason. But there’s just no real evidence or motivation that I can gather for such speculation.
But as I mentioned previously, I’m keen to hear from anyone who’s actually got some concrete evidence (other than more images of connected badges). Even genuine first hand anecdotal evidence I would fine interesting. The photo of Reimspiess with a large sketch of the connected logo is interesting. But without context, it’s just that. He looks around seventy plus years old which would make that circa 1970. So obviously years after the alleged connected logo theory. And it contradicts his logo design in the first place. It also needs to be adequately explained why VW would ever do this when they had the official gapped logo plastered nearly everywhere else in and around the beetle, even prior to ’49 (i.e. gear stick, speedometer, dash, pedals, hub caps, etc). Simply makes no sense. Other than perhaps an error, as suggested. But again, that’s another theory that needs proving on its own.
And yeah, haters be haters lol. But I won’t be posting my correspondence with VW as evidence for a few reasons; firstly, what difference would it make to the people here who assume to know better anyway? Secondly, my personal details are displayed. Which I suppose I could go to the trouble of redacting them, but that would be going to more trouble than I’m willing to. Especially when it’s so easy for anyone else to contact VW and ask basic questions. I will however post the contact page and email address for those seemingly incapable of using a keyboard beyond this forum:
https://www.volkswagen.de/de/besitzer-und-service/ueber-ihr-auto/hilfe-und-dialogcenter.html
[email protected]
If you’re not proficient in German, or can’t use the internet competently to translate German, then contact your countries English speaking counterpart. |
I think, there is no need to be too serious about that question or "problem".
Maybe in the book "Kleiner Wagen auf grosser Fahrt" 1949, there can be a pic of the earliest post war VW beetle hood emblems. Here I can say, my 9´49 and 3´50 splits which I have since 1970 and 1984, both have the old-style, no-gapped logos. My 7´50 split already has the newer gapped edition. All cars with original hoods, undamaged, unrestored. It´s known, at least in later years, VW had some different supplier for emblems, such as: a) "Lauer", Nuernberg, b) K.S.P., c) PuC about the same time. Who knows, when the first no-gapped "repro-emblems" appeared on market? My 49 was barn-stored in 1974 and when I got him in 1984, the un-gapped logo was present. For me, there is positivly no doubt, this version is original, probably till mid 1950. In 10´52 the beetle got a new style "unsolid" VW-emblem which was not used for busses, as far as I know. So I think it´s quite possible, that there were some left over parts, or even a new series of gapped or un-gapped were ordered.
Thinking about wheel caps since around May 1949 with the small logo. This logo has about the same size as the hood emblem. For the pressing process of the caps, a gap makes technical sense and is necessary for the rounded wheel caps, but not necessary for flat hood or dash emblems. My 9´49 has 3 original wheel caps (with only one hole), but of course, all have gaps on the caps. |
If you replace ‘serious’ for ‘curious’ , then you describe my sentiment accurately here. And thank you for the genuine information - especially the outsourced emblem supplier names. Appreciate you responding seriously. I have sent a request to VW to ask if they have photos that can confirm the gapped logo was affixed in 1949, as per their inferred claim. Being the first model to carry this on the hood, you would expect so. I will let know how they respond. |
Hello VW dilemma, more than 3 months are over now. Still no response? |
No, there was a response. But not a satisfying one I felt worth sharing. Apparently they do not have any images of the 1949 logo newly affixed. Why you wouldn't capture this on a model displaying it for the first time is a bit odd imo. But that's the official response from VW. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| Quote: |
| No, there was a response. But not a satisfying one I felt worth sharing. Apparently they do not have any images of the 1949 logo newly affixed. Why you wouldn't capture this on a model displaying it for the first time is a bit odd imo. But that's the official response from VW. |
Thanks for your answer. So for now, it seems, at WOB: no pics, no knowledge, no interest.
Imo, for now it seems, all the field watching knowledge here on samba still seems to be true.
Thinking towards your opinion, it seems, it´s still not prooved, that in late 49, there were gapped logos fixed originally on cars. Was there something said, how many suppliers for logos VW had, in 1949?
I think, the VW info you got is interesting for all samba readers here.
Thanks |
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VWdilemma
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2024
Posts: 18
Location: Queensland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No, there was a response. But not a satisfying one I felt worth sharing. Apparently they do not have any images of the 1949 logo newly affixed. Why you wouldn't capture this on a model displaying it for the first time is a bit odd imo. But that's the official response from VW. |
Thanks for your answer. So for now, it seems, at WOB: no pics, no knowledge, no interest.
Imo, for now it seems, all the field watching knowledge here on samba still seems to be true.
Thinking towards your opinion, it seems, it´s still not prooved, that in late 49, there were gapped logos fixed originally on cars. Was there something said, how many suppliers for logos VW had, in 1949?
I think, the VW info you got is interesting for all samba readers here.
Thanks |
I appreciate your reply and thoughts. I did follow a few of the posted leads (of those companies that possibly made logos for VW during that era) but none seems to fit the timeline. The company Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst began supplying Volkswagen with outer door handles and keys in 1948. Their product portfolio also included emblems and trims at a very early stage in their history, but I cannot definitively show they supplied the first VW hood emblems in 1949. The long-standing relationship between Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst and Volkswagen, however, makes it a plausible possibility.
So we could speculate that Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst started making the emblems when its factory was dismantled, resulting in them halting production of the emblems at Huf’s. And that these first batch were the connected logos. I speculate about this because of the following passage I found; “In 1949, as part of the reparations imposed on Germany by the victorious Allied forces, Huf’s factory was dismantled and the machinery subsequently shipped to Belgium. The company was allowed, however, to continue its operations with newly purchased machines.” (Source: International Directory of COMPANY HISTORIES VOLUME 171, (GALE, 2015).
However, there were other supplier options for Volkswagen close enough to Wolfsburg that they could have used around that time. It would make more sense that a smaller company, whose records aren’t officially recognised by Volkswagen, made what is now the connected logos.
I still have my doubts they are original though. For me to except they are, I would have to except that the company who made them was either given design specs and instructions that deviated from the original design (i.e. had joined lettering). Or that the company who made them stuffed up the design based off the correct specs and instructions.
I believe the first scenario would have left more evidence of this. Even as a legendary story. And would’ve created a mystique around the models that wore them. There is no such providential evidence of this save the last 20 years.
The second scenario is even less convincing; “Oh, you stuffed up our designs? No problem. They were only for the first models wearing them on the hood. No big deal. Just try and get it right next time.”
Neither of these scenarios stand to reason. The only scenario that does is the one I have already proposed. Which doesn’t seem to be too popular here. And is quite possibly incorrect. But in the absence of better evidence, it seems the more likely answer imo. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| VWdilemma wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No, there was a response. But not a satisfying one I felt worth sharing. Apparently they do not have any images of the 1949 logo newly affixed. Why you wouldn't capture this on a model displaying it for the first time is a bit odd imo. But that's the official response from VW. |
Thanks for your answer. So for now, it seems, at WOB: no pics, no knowledge, no interest.
Imo, for now it seems, all the field watching knowledge here on samba still seems to be true.
Thinking towards your opinion, it seems, it´s still not prooved, that in late 49, there were gapped logos fixed originally on cars. Was there something said, how many suppliers for logos VW had, in 1949?
I think, the VW info you got is interesting for all samba readers here.
Thanks |
I appreciate your reply and thoughts. I did follow a few of the posted leads (of those companies that possibly made logos for VW during that era) but none seems to fit the timeline. The company Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst began supplying Volkswagen with outer door handles and keys in 1948. Their product portfolio also included emblems and trims at a very early stage in their history, but I cannot definitively show they supplied the first VW hood emblems in 1949. The long-standing relationship between Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst and Volkswagen, however, makes it a plausible possibility.
So we could speculate that Huf Hülsbeck & Fürst started making the emblems when its factory was dismantled, resulting in them halting production of the emblems at Huf’s. And that these first batch were the connected logos. I speculate about this because of the following passage I found; “In 1949, as part of the reparations imposed on Germany by the victorious Allied forces, Huf’s factory was dismantled and the machinery subsequently shipped to Belgium. The company was allowed, however, to continue its operations with newly purchased machines.” (Source: International Directory of COMPANY HISTORIES VOLUME 171, (GALE, 2015).
However, there were other supplier options for Volkswagen close enough to Wolfsburg that they could have used around that time. It would make more sense that a smaller company, whose records aren’t officially recognised by Volkswagen, made what is now the connected logos.
I still have my doubts they are original though. For me to except they are, I would have to except that the company who made them was either given design specs and instructions that deviated from the original design (i.e. had joined lettering). Or that the company who made them stuffed up the design based off the correct specs and instructions.
I believe the first scenario would have left more evidence of this. Even as a legendary story. And would’ve created a mystique around the models that wore them. There is no such providential evidence of this save the last 20 years.
The second scenario is even less convincing; “Oh, you stuffed up our designs? No problem. They were only for the first models wearing them on the hood. No big deal. Just try and get it right next time.”
Neither of these scenarios stand to reason. The only scenario that does is the one I have already proposed. Which doesn’t seem to be too popular here. And is quite possibly incorrect. But in the absence of better evidence, it seems the more likely answer imo. |
I think it´s rather easy.
For me (and many others), it´s clear, at least many of the first original 1949 export logos were ungapped, till around mid 1950.
I do not deny, the possibility that there was parallel another VW supplier who pressed already in 1949 gapped logos.
But for now, we still saw no that theory prooving pics for gapped logos, let´s say for 1949 only.
But... trying to think with VW factory view:
Maybe there is a problem, what kind of logo is offical licenced.
As far as I know, it´s the capitals "V and W inside a circle", so two single capitals divided by a gap.
The ungapped logo on all the pressed emblems fixed on cars from 1949-50 can be regarded as a kind of not correctly licenced "artwork", because of the connected capitals.
So the existing and original 49-50 emblems can have been a failure, accident, mishap, mispressing, that was detected and corrected in mid 1950.
If so, it´s understandable that VW nowadays officially doesn´t want to talk or write about old failures, or show old pics to proove that.
The old "KdF-VW-Logo" was gapped, compare, with many thanks to iwlego:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1754988
Thinking about numbers of the ungapped logo, emblems: when started with 14 A and 15 verts and exports in 49 till stop around mid 50, some for busses, estimate 50 000.
And finally, so... no doubt about, the 1949-50 emblems with ungapped logo were original and reality, but probably not exactly correct in regard of the officilly licenced gapped (only) logo.
Similar to in small numbers printed "uncorrect" poststamps. |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Barndoor VW logo pod |
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| VWdilemma wrote: |
| For Volkswagen to make a no-gapped logo makes no sense. All of these are reproductions. The VW logo was officially patented in 1948. The first appearance of the hood emblem on Beetles was 1949. Why would they make the first ones with letters seamlessly connected after they just patented the gapped logo? Even the owners manuals from 1949 have the gapped emblem sketched into the phantom view diagram. Also this theory about them being “left-overs from past times” doesn’t hold water either. The fist bus was 1950. Where else have this type of emblems been found? What model? Where on the car? So “left-over” from where? When? Everyone thinking they are in possession of an original emblem that is connected has been fooled. And everyone who is making these emblems now are perpetuating the false theory that they were ever connected. |
Hello VWdilemma, coming back to your first post.
Imo, it´s the opposite of truth, to claim `the first appearance of the hood emblem on beetles was 1949´.
According to the ´Pidoll-book´1994, the first appearance was 1941, when serial production of the beetle started.
If this is not clear or sure enough, the May 1944 spare book for type 82 and 82 E lists ´Firmenplakette´on front hood with spare number ´11 815 041´.
More over, in the ´Beschreibung...´ of type 82 and 82 E from June 1943, a emblem on frot hood is recognizable, pics 32 and 34 can be seen.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/1943_kubelwagen_ops_manual/1943%20Kubelwagen-Typ-82.pdf
Very kind would be, if you, or VW could name the suppliers, who produced VW hood emblems from 1949 till 9´52, connected and gapped. As all suppliers had to be payed, there should be correspondence. In round figures, the number for all these emblems should be around 150 000.
If there are or were producers and dealer for repro-emblems, please name them and show evidence when they started their business with the ´connected-´VW-logos.
Nice pics also here: https://www.designenlassen.de/blog/bekannte-logos/vw-logo/
Interesting is the story about several different VW-logos pre war and between May 1945 and December 1949 in VW literature. The book ´Volkswagen Käfer´, Borgeson, Shuler, Sloninger´, 1994, ISBN 3-89365-363-5 has also good info.
With many thanks to all people here and reading this, who are willing to respect the ´die 7 Kerngrundsaetze von VW´
https://www.volkswagen-group.com/de/konzerngrundsaetze-15957
...and sometimes you need Don Camillo... |
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