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Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project
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philoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:53 am    Post subject: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Hi all

I just got a WW "Okrasa" kit as a gift for my Oval. Nice gift, sure !

I have dilemma... I don't know how much to upgrade the engine. I would like to have your opinion on the best cost/effectiveness compromises of the different configurations below

1 - WW kit only on the stock 36HP

2 - WW kit + big bore cylinders/pistons (1300cc)

3 - WW kit + 69,5 crank (1300cc)

4 - WW kit + 69,5 crank + big bore cylinders pistons (1400cc)

5 - WW kit + 69,5 + big bore + High Performance Camshaft

I don't want to explore 74mm configurations ... I do not need a racing Oval.

At first glance, my choice would a priori go to configuration #2...
looking forward to reading your analysis. And arguments
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

I would look into a stroker crank and custom camshaft before big bore cylinders. This will give you opportunity to match the compression ratio to the camshaft, and have something that is optimal for the cc's. In stock form, the 36hp is pretty low compression, 6.6:1. Just slapping nice heads and larger cylinders on doesn't address that.
Options besides the Wolfsburg West for cams are Elgin, Isky, Schneider, and Webcam, and you probably have other options in Europe.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Did you get a "top end" WW kit?
Wrt more displacement. Definitely yes.The Okrasa heads barely functions well at the Okrasa 1286 displacement. Another 100 cc along with a proper valve job makes wonders.
Cam or not sort of depends on the carburetion and exhaust.
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philoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Did you get a "top end" WW kit?


The heads, carbs, air filters, linkage, manifolds and fuel lines ...
No crank
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

I would go with 4 or 5 options......why not take the advantage of the more power ...
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philoo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

I am reluctant for a strong preparation because of the structure and properties of the 36HP case

The Okrasa kits at the time did not go beyond 1300cc, Porsche abandoned this case for powers beyond 55hp...
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Well built 36 hp based engines easily handles 80-90 hp. We build 15-1600´s regularly which pull that kind of power with no issues. Hans biesmann is currently building a 120ish1700 cc. Here you can talk about things getting complicated. Semi full circle crank, slim rods, reduced base circle cam, improved lubrication etc etc.
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

I have been running my Big Bore Okrasa 15xxcc for nearly 20 years with no issues still runs great. Now I am not putting a ton of miles on it, and I am not abusing the engine. At this rate should get another 20
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Casperfg
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2025 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Hi there,
Great topic for me as I'm going to have a turnkey engine built for my 57' Oval in pursuit of my version of vintage speed. There is quite an array of options and skilled craftsmen to help make it happen if one chooses. Really fun to imagine the car that meets your desires.
Have you settled on one of the options?
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wagen19
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Casperfg wrote:
Hi there,
Great topic for me as I'm going to have a turnkey engine built for my 57' Oval in pursuit of my version of vintage speed. There is quite an array of options and skilled craftsmen to help make it happen if one chooses. Really fun to imagine the car that meets your desires.
Have you settled on one of the options?


According to "Jetzt mache ich ihn schneller" Bd. 7, Edition 1, the stock 30 HP crank don´t like high torque and high revs. That cranks often crack under stress.
An original 69,5 okrasa crank or a 74 Porsche crank with stronger 356 rods, 22 pins seems to be a more solid base and is not necessarily a "race engine". Thinking in direction of 356, with "mild" 1500 ccm, 55 HP.
Heads: you can use machined stock, okrasa or 356 pre A heads on a 30 HP VW engine.
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Casperfg
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Can you explain what the "22 pins" reference means?
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Robert Chambers
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

22 pins is referring to the piston pins being 22 mm. The 36 HP stock pins are 20 mm.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Thank you!
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2025 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Casperfg wrote:
Hi there,
Great topic for me as I'm going to have a turnkey engine built for my 57' Oval in pursuit of my version of vintage speed. There is quite an array of options and skilled craftsmen to help make it happen if one chooses. Really fun to imagine the car that meets your desires.
Have you settled on one of the options?

There are so many angles for entrance in this game. Some of it is based on ignorance, other finance, other again just want to be able to bragg about having an Okrasa engine and couldnt care less about how it runs as long as it starts and pulls the car on a trailer.

The "stock" WW Okrasa kit works more or less as intended back in the early 50ies. But as so many other subjects we have learned a thing or two since then. With today´s eyes the stock out of the box 1300 Okrasa is a bit toothless. Perform a proper valve and seat job along with increasing displacement with the 80/81 mm big bore cylinders and the engine really wakes up. Much more than the extra 100 cc would indicate. this is because the cylinderhead port volume is on the large side. By adding a measly 25 cc per cylinder you change the behavior on the engine by a lot.
I would definitely recommend doing that if you plan on driving the thing every once in a while.
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Bub
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Which stage for an Okrasa (WW) project Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Casperfg wrote:
Hi there,
Great topic for me as I'm going to have a turnkey engine built for my 57' Oval in pursuit of my version of vintage speed. There is quite an array of options and skilled craftsmen to help make it happen if one chooses. Really fun to imagine the car that meets your desires.
Have you settled on one of the options?

There are so many angles for entrance in this game. Some of it is based on ignorance, other finance, other again just want to be able to bragg about having an Okrasa engine and couldnt care less about how it runs as long as it starts and pulls the car on a trailer.

The "stock" WW Okrasa kit works more or less as intended back in the early 50ies. But as so many other subjects we have learned a thing or two since then. With today´s eyes the stock out of the box 1300 Okrasa is a bit toothless. Perform a proper valve and seat job along with increasing displacement with the 80/81 mm big bore cylinders and the engine really wakes up. Much more than the extra 100 cc would indicate. this is because the cylinderhead port volume is on the large side. By adding a measly 25 cc per cylinder you change the behavior on the engine by a lot.
I would definitely recommend doing that if you plan on driving the thing every once in a while.



Totally 100% all of this ^ .

I'll just add that you can really build a 36hp at hot end of all these specs and it'll run great. And it's not like you're building it to go for 100k reliable miles anymore.
I'm running an oddball combo with WW carbs, cam, 4 tip exhaust- 80mm big bore, stock heads with 'Okrasa ' valves - and almost ZERO deck.
It runs fantastic even on 110* days over mountain passes.--**
*I did add one of Andrigs Evo 1 fans, THAT is worth doing my friends, massive difference.*

Do NOT leave the WW repro parts as-is, and don't be afraid to really spice it up a little -- you're missing out on alot if you do.
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