Swing axle leaking trans oil at the wheel

[txoval]

Call me weird, but I sure as heck use the gasket behind the backing plate. I also use black sealant for this gasket. I've never had a leak...

The hardest part is setting the large o-ring in place and keeping it properly seated while installing the cap.

Also, if you do not torque the axle nut to the proper torque, it will leak.

[andk5591]

[Tbirdusa]

I am not putting the washer in this go round. It appears my large spring coil seal was a tick off kilter in how it sat in the cap. It'll sit for a couple weeks, I'm going to Dismey World !!
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Royals 2015 World Champions
Chiefs 2017 Superbowl winner
1986 Falco records Rock Me Amadeus!

[andk5591]

Make sure you catch the Herbie thrill show at Disney Studios......
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D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Tbirdusa]

That might just get me in the mood to work on the car more.
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Royals 2015 World Champions
Chiefs 2017 Superbowl winner
1986 Falco records Rock Me Amadeus!

[txoval]

No, the large o-ring sits over the bearing. It's a tight fit and likes to slide off. That's what I mean by keeping it in place...

[bomberbob]

Hi, i know this is an old stale post, but I don't see a need to open a new thread for a problem that is already being discussed.
1968 standard beetle. I bought the car about 9 years ago, and its been in repair all that time. When I bought it there were no leaks from the rear axles. Over the last 6 months or so I pulled the transmission to repair leaking side plates. I found that there was no oil in the transmission, which is why nothing was leaking out. Ruined the axles, fulcrum plates, etc. Replaced all the bad parts, cleaned everything up and put it back in the car. I have now replaced the seals 3 times with no success. Bought new spacers and installed in one of those repair cycles, no joy. Bought new bearing covers and installed during another repair cycle, no joy. Left out the washer that was deforming in the last repair cycle, then placed cardboard under the brake drums and watched for leaks. Still leak. I don't even put in cotter pins anymore, its up on quickjacks for now while I put disc brakes in the front to make up for oily lack of brakes in the rear. Is the large O ring that goes around the bearing diameter too small? Do I need to get a custom seal that will smash in there and seal? I put in new bearings, should I have bought the sealed bearings? This is really frustrating, as it has been for the other folks posting on this subject. I called a local shop that says they work on old classics and asked them if they would fix this for me. They want nothing to do with it, can't even pay somebody to fix it. On my own with this one, and after reading post after post on this forum and others, I do not know what I am doing wrong. Is there something that I am overlooking?
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1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

[bomberbob]

I still have the bearing covers that came on the car, but previous owners beat the crap out of them and there is no way they will seal. I bought some off of Samba classified, they were worse than what I had. No choice but buy new. I installed the spacer in the spring loaded seal so I didn't disturb the spring while trying to install later. Like I said, I have read every post I can find hoping to find a trick or ancient Chinese secret on how to put this together without leaks, nope. I had a 72 years ago, loved that car and it was IRS. Thought about modifying this one to IRS, this just isn't working.
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1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

Your first step will be to check and verify your axles, axle tubes, and bearing caps. This can be done by part number, visual inspection (posting pictures), or measurements. Mismatched parts leak just as bad as damaged parts. Pictures often work as many here can identify parts that way (I'm a bit of a brake part stickler myself).

You will have to help us help you. No parts for a Bug newer than 1955 are that hard to get, it's the most produced car in the world. However, parts were updated over the years and often those changes where not compatible.
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[bomberbob]

Axles I bought off of Amazon, they are EMPI parts. Rear bearing carriers came from Heritage. I took a second look at the ones that came off the car. No good, looks like previous owner pried the seals out or something, no way an O ring can seal in there. I don't see part numbers on them, they are aftermarket. Rear wheel bearings came from Parts Geek. No part number on them either, they are not sealed. I suppose I could try and find a sealed set and see if that helps. Bought several sets of seal kits, Beck Arnley brand. I think when I pull them apart again I will put some sandpaper on glass and see if I can get the sealing surface on the bearing carriers nice and flat. I appreciate your willingness to help and you are correct that parts are available, but everything is aftermarket and probably made in China. I can post photos when I take it back apart, what do you need to see?
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1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

The best pictures to start with would be a side profile view of the bearing cap and a picture of how far into the axle tube the bearing sits with the axle pushed inward (with that we should be able to figure out the machined depth of the axle tube).

Here is a thread that shows what we are looking for, at least the first potential issue that comes to my mind. The '67 and '68 axles are interchangeable, but the tubes and caps have to stay all '67 or all '68.

Another useful shot might be from behind the wheel looking forward at the axle tube under the car. It is possible that someone stuck an older short axle transaxle in there. Are you running 4-lug drum brakes or 5 lug drum brakes, or is this car converted to disc brakes?
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[bomberbob]

Thanks, I will probably start taking it apart again tomorrow and take photos. Still running 4 lug drums, no interest in spending the money to upgrade to discs when I can't stop the leaks. I am putting discs on the front. Tore a ball joint boot so waiting for parts to finish that activity.
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1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

Pulled drums and all associated parts today. Photos below. I did not see any visual problems like pinched O ring or anything like that. I will order a set of sealed bearings from CB today and try those.
The persistent drip drip drip from the drum.

Rear of the assembly

view with the cover removed. It looks like the gasket was installed crooked, but I think it shifted when I pulled the cover off and the backing plate came loose. I don't think it was crooked. Drivers side did not shift.

another angle

view with backing plate removed

another angle

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1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

Those pictures help. It gives me 3 ideas.

1. Make sure the axle and bearing are all the way inward then measure how much of the bearing outer race is past the axle tube. This will help us determine if you need ‘67 or ‘68 axle bearing caps to secure the bearing and keep it from moving. Getting that wrong is a leak.

2. I don’t see a washer behind the small o-ring on the axle. In may leak without that, as that o-ring may not be compressed when the axle nut is tightened.

3. It should be the large o-ring and then gasket before the axle bearing cap is installed.
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[scrivyscriv]

The right axle was leaking on my 1967 beetle and I went through at least three seal kits before it stopped. I cut the outer seal on the first one. The second one didn't seat right, and the third one was also weeping. Those all came from rock auto and were the beck arnley brand.
The last one I installed came from Weddle transmissions, and was kind of a "oh hey since I'm ordering stuff, let's throw in a seal kit" moment. I'd already bought a "sealed" bearing at that point and had decided to change it out, even ordered the two jaw bearing puller from fritz customs here on the classifieds.

Then the weddle seal kit arrived, and was totally different from the other seal kits. I've had some slight weepage over time but no more drips after installing their kit.

Just my experience.
Maybe, just a thought, you could try swapping parts over axle-for-axle? Since it sounds like you have a known good side, that would at least eliminate all of those parts as potential failure points. The bearing cap, solid spacer, big washer, and maybe even bearing.

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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[bomberbob]

Thanks, ordered two Weddle seal kits a few minutes ago. CB was out of sealed bearings, had to order from the UK. Kind of expensive but at this point I don't have a choice. I am unsure of whether the large O ring goes over or under the paper gasket. You tube videos show it going over the gasket. I will try putting it under the gasket this time. I left the washer out this last time, some Samba posts noted that they had better luck just putting the small O ring between the bearing and the spacer without the washer. The washer that comes in the Beck Arnley kit is soft, the pressure of the O ring would bend and curl the inner edge of the washer. It did seem to leak less without the washer, but it still drips. I will go out today and measure how far the bearing is sticking out.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

I don’t think a sealed bearing will fix anything except that the seal in the cover should be redundant. I suspect the main leakage is down the axle, getting past that inner o-ring and then coming out between the seal race and drum. Outer o-ring leakage should either be external or getting past the pressed in oil seal.

I would really like a hard steel inner washer about 1 millimeter thick in place of the soft (aluminum?) crap that comes in modern rear axle seal kits. I’ve been known to ditch that inner washer, but that axle o-ring needs to compressed enough to make a solid seal against the axle.
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[scrivyscriv]

The o-ring should go on top of the paper gasket.

The EMPI axles are suspect simply due to the name; they are not known for high quality standards. How good of a fit is the axle shaft spacer that goes on top of the small o-ring?

I can’t help but mention, you absolutely have to have the axle nuts torqued to spec or it will leak. I believe spec is about 250 ft-lbs.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Jimmys 65]

[quote] I usually tape the splines up before installing the small o-ring so the splines don’t nick the inside of it.

Excellent idea.

Quote - Maybe, just a thought, you could try swapping parts over axle-for-axle? Since it sounds like you have a known good side, that would at least eliminate all of those parts as potential failure points.

And another excellent idea.

Both of my axle seals were leaking when I bought my 65 beetle. I read and watched a lot of videos before I did anything, and I found the Just Kampers 3 part series to be a great how-to guide. After replacing them, the divers side developed a small leak out of the weep hole. I just got around to redoing that side and upon removal I could see that the large rubber o-ring hadn't seated correctly. It was kind of mangled and twisted in one spot, clearly not making a good seal. I bought a new kit and the first thing I noticed was that the paper gasket was considerably thicker than the previous kit. The gaskets in the first kit were so thin, I remember contemplating using both, but I didn't. Anyway, new kit installed, tranny full and driven 30 miles or so, it's dry![