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mfemenel
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Matthews, NC
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 Posted: Sun May 04, 2025 4:01 am Post subject: Issues Turning Right |
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When it comes to alignment...I'm an idiot or a noob... however you'd like to think about it is fine.
I put new tie rod ends on my 70 Ghia and a new steering damper. Turning left, no problem, turning right I get maybe 1/4 to 1/2 turn and I'm bound up. The steering damper is compressing all the way to it's minimum and preventing further right turns. Pitman arm is straight back to the driver side. I thought I was being super careful with replacing them, checking measurements and thread count, obviously I was wrong.
I'm not even sure where to start with this and could definitely use a push in the right direction.
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'79 Westy FI/AC/Auto
'78 Tin Top FI/Manual
'70 Ghia |
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Disc
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 627
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2025 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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Easy and simple!
Remove the tie rods. Remove the steering damper (just in case). Turn full left then full right and count the turns. Then divide the turns, sort of center the pitman arm. Tie rods are next as you adjust them lenght to fit the pitman arm and steering knuckles WITHOUT moving the last ones. That way you have equal amount of turns for left and right. If everythig is OK, install back the steering damper and observe the end result. You still need an alignment done!
BTW - there is limiters on the front axle that are adjustable - simple bolts, pitman arm use them to limit the maximum turn, they are used to make sure your tires don't rub in the chassis. Make sure they don't limit your turns left and right and also function as intended.
If the steering was OK before tie rod replacement, then the procedure above will work just fine.
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The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
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Nick |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2025 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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| Disc wrote: |
Easy and simple!
Remove the tie rods. Remove the steering damper (just in case). Turn full left then full right and count the turns. Then divide the turns, sort of center the pitman arm. Tie rods are next as you adjust them lenght to fit the pitman arm and steering knuckles WITHOUT moving the last ones. That way you have equal amount of turns for left and right. If everythig is OK, install back the steering damper and observe the end result. You still need an alignment done!
BTW - there is limiters on the front axle that are adjustable - simple bolts, pitman arm use them to limit the maximum turn, they are used to make sure your tires don't rub in the chassis. Make sure they don't limit your turns left and right and also function as intended.
If the steering was OK before tie rod replacement, then the procedure above will work just fine. |
So far not wrong, but still not exact enough.
The steering gear has a marking for middle position.
In that position the steering wheel, also in middle position has to be affixed.
That´s the position to start, adjusting the lengh of tie rods. (hoping you have the correct ones for the year and model of your car)
Please have a look in (factory) handbook for better understanding. |
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mfemenel
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Matthews, NC
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2025 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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Thank you both.
_________________
'79 Westy FI/AC/Auto
'78 Tin Top FI/Manual
'70 Ghia |
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Disc
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 627
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2025 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
So far not wrong, but still not exact enough.
The steering gear has a marking for middle position. |
Absolutely true but I didn't mention it simply because chances him to see that marking is near zero if the tank is still in place. If you get it in ball park, alignment guy will do the rest if he knows what he's doing.
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The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
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Nick |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2025 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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| Disc wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
So far not wrong, but still not exact enough.
The steering gear has a marking for middle position. |
Absolutely true but I didn't mention it simply because chances him to see that marking is near zero if the tank is still in place. If you get it in ball park, alignment guy will do the rest if he knows what he's doing. |
... alignment guy will do the rest if...
but what if not and in a hurry???
Imo, today, with our old cars, we can´t depend on, the younger guys have the knowledge and the time to do "big" repair jobs on our cars.
If we, the owner knows, the steering wheel is surely affixed in middle position, it´s a better position to start for the alignment guy and no waste of time.
We and our cars should be prepared for easy doing a good job and having technical specs on hand. |
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mfemenel
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Matthews, NC
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2025 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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In this case I have zero confidence the steering wheel is remotely close to correct. new to me vehicle since late February. It had the wrong tie rod ends on one side as well. Fortunately we have a good alignment shop nearby that knows/understands vintage cars and has done lots of these. I don't mind letting them get me to a good setting.
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'79 Westy FI/AC/Auto
'78 Tin Top FI/Manual
'70 Ghia |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4108
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2025 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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The last time I sought an alignment, I brought my Haynes manual with the specs in it as well as a tool for the eccentric on my ball joint front end.
I still had to go to four shops to find one willing to touch it.
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Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
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Disc
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 627
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2025 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
| If we, the owner knows, the steering wheel is surely affixed in middle position... |
| mfemenel wrote: |
| In this case I have zero confidence the steering wheel is remotely close to correct. |
Well, I completely forgot to mention that part. It's not that the steering wheel needes to be in it's center position! It's the steering box center position that's most important. Because the steering wheel have a really fine splines, I always say to the alignment guy not to mind the steering wheel position, I fix that later with a test drive. Basically I do this - I do my best to put the steering box in it's center position, put the tie rods on (if corection to it's lenghts needed - I perform that) and go to alignment. The guy do his job, after I mention the not so important steering wheel center position - but the equal left and right turns. After he perform his job I ask him to measure left and right turns (the equipment have such ability) AND visualy inspect that the tires are not touching the chassis at full left or right turns (in such case adjusters on the front beam are adjusted) and left and right turns meausered again until they are equal. Test drives helps me to center the steering wheel, because if there is a play in the steering box, alignment equiptment is not that useful in this case, in fact steering box play must be addressed first before visiting alignment otherwise you just spend money on something that you'll need to perform again after the issue is fixed.
Hope all of this makes sence!
I know that younger guys don't have the experience needed to perform a lot of routine tasks for servicing our cars. For instance a lot of modern cars have a steering shaft and wheel shaped in a such way that allows you to mount the wheel only in one position. If you are an alignment guy and that's what you've seen for your entire career, you'll always will start with and steering wheel centered and then proceed with the alignment. But that will not help you with an old VW, indeed you'll chase your tail for a while...
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The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
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Nick |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 543
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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| Disc wrote: |
| wagen19 wrote: |
| If we, the owner knows, the steering wheel is surely affixed in middle position... |
| mfemenel wrote: |
| In this case I have zero confidence the steering wheel is remotely close to correct. |
Well, I completely forgot to mention that part. It's not that the steering wheel needes to be in it's center position! It's the steering box center position that's most important. Because the steering wheel have a really fine splines, I always say to the alignment guy not to mind the steering wheel position, I fix that later with a test drive. Basically I do this - I do my best to put the steering box in it's center position, put the tie rods on (if corection to it's lenghts needed - I perform that) and go to alignment. The guy do his job, after I mention the not so important steering wheel center position - but the equal left and right turns. After he perform his job I ask him to measure left and right turns (the equipment have such ability) AND visualy inspect that the tires are not touching the chassis at full left or right turns (in such case adjusters on the front beam are adjusted) and left and right turns meausered again until they are equal. Test drives helps me to center the steering wheel, because if there is a play in the steering box, alignment equiptment is not that useful in this case, in fact steering box play must be addressed first before visiting alignment otherwise you just spend money on something that you'll need to perform again after the issue is fixed.
Hope all of this makes sence!
I know that younger guys don't have the experience needed to perform a lot of routine tasks for servicing our cars. For instance a lot of modern cars have a steering shaft and wheel shaped in a such way that allows you to mount the wheel only in one position. If you are an alignment guy and that's what you've seen for your entire career, you'll always will start with and steering wheel centered and then proceed with the alignment. But that will not help you with an old VW, indeed you'll chase your tail for a while... |
Imo, for them whose target is, their car gets a proper alignment and the steering wheel is in straight position when driving straight, imo it´s easier for the all, including the alignment guy, to start with the corrct position of steering wheel AND steering box in middle position.
It´s easier to see the steering wheel is in straight position, than on the box.
Why not doing that job first? It´s also more exact. On the first test drive after the alignment job, all can find out at once, whether all is correct or not.
I´m rather sure, if your alignment guy is good, he will go that that way for you.
OK, but if you really want, you can do it your way and start again, after the alignment job is done, playing yourself with affixing your wheel. That´s also possible. |
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mfemenel
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2014
Posts: 289
Location: Matthews, NC
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2025 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Issues Turning Right |
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Back on the road, totally worth the $ to have it done by a professional so I have good base now. A little slop in the steering box but nothing that prevents me from enjoying a great day for driving. One of these rainy days I'll deal with that.
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'79 Westy FI/AC/Auto
'78 Tin Top FI/Manual
'70 Ghia |
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