Swing axle leaking trans oil at the wheel

[EVfun]

[Ovally]

[Jimmys 65]

[bomberbob]

Answering questions while I wait for new bearings and seal kits.
Fit of outboard spacer on axle. tight fit, I have to pry them off. This is the second set of spacers, original set were trashed when previous owner drove car with no oil. I ordered a new aftermarket set, leaked. Thought they were chamfered wrong so bought another set from a different supplier. Still leaked.
I do not want to reinstall the bearings to measure how far they protrude, had difficulty getting them out without the special puller. However the recess for the bearings in the axle tube is 13.7 mm, bearings are 19.2 mm. So protrusion would be around 5.5 mm depending on how I measured.
I did have the drums torqued using the torquemeister tool.
I will put the large O ring under the paper gasket in the next attempt. I think I will also run the bearing covers over some sandpaper to make sure they are flat before they go back on.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[VW_Jimbo]

Just wondering…..

It sounds like a mismatch of parts. From what I can see you have Oval window axle tubes. (There is no twist in the shock connection point.) makes me wonder what the bearing cap looks like.?

Also, bolt the cap onto the axle housing without the plate and measure the gap for the plate. Is it too big?

Those are the first things that came to mind. Not sure if any of it will yield anything, but ??????

Good luck man!

Edit; here is a picture for reference. Later tube on the right.

_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[bomberbob]

I have the twist. Will mount the bearing cover tonight and measure the gap.

_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

[bomberbob]

gap when the bearing cover is installed on axle tube: 4 mm. Backing plate is 5 mm thick. Sealed bearings from the UK are to deliver today, seal kits from Weddle are supposed to be here friday.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[scrivyscriv]

[sjbartnik]

This is correct and after studying this for a while (and having done this job a few times), it finally dawned on me that the paper gasket doesn't really do anything in terms of sealing. It exists, in my view, to eliminate the metal-to-metal contact between the bearing housing and the backing plate, but at the end of the day, the two o-rings do all the oil sealing around the bearing with the main oil seal taking care of the stuff that gets through the bearing itself.

Once I had that a-ha moment I stopped putting Permatex on the paper gaskets and have never had any leakage from them.
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[EVfun]

The paper gasket does one other thing. For those Bugs with the oil deflector in the bearing cap it serves to seal around the weep hole that directs any leakage out behind the backing plate.

With the pre-1965 design that uses an drum mounted oil slinger (if one is actually present) the paper gasket wasn't used.
_________________

[bomberbob]

Ok finally got back in the garage to work. Weddle seal kit is SABO brand. The metal washer is magnetic, but it is very soft. Not going to use it, will go without.
However after I put the first bearing cover on a sandpaper flat plate I found a defect that I think may leak. There was a nick where the two pieces hit each other in shipment (poor packaging), it may leak there. I will probably fill that with JB weld, and then sand it down flat.

Second issue is the backing plates. Upon very close examination it looks to me like there is material missing from the edge of the mounting holes, there next to the big hole where the bearing sits. I looked at the back side thinking maybe it's bent, but the back looks flat. I don't really know what happened, but it seems to me that when the paper and O ring go in here, they are not going to seal in this depression, and it's going to leak. So going to order new backing plates and just hope I get something halfway decent. Leaving no stone unturned on this problem.

_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

Howdy
Got the new sealed bearings installed. Installed new seals in the bearing carrier even though the ones I had in it were new. Pressed them in, must have pressed too far because the slinger washer would not move. Removed the slinger washer and put it back together. Installed the drum, torqued the nut and bled the brakes. Went to adjust the brake shoes, drums don't turn. Hmmm. Removed drum, checked two make sure I had the emergency brake bar in right. It was. Took the brake shoes out and sanded them a bit to radius to the drum. No joy. Put the brake drum on without any brake shoes, grinding when I turn the drum. This is getting serious now, I already filled the gearbox with oil. I measured the lip on the old backing plate, a little over 15 mm. New plates measure 17. Look for signs of rubbing, none. Then I find this. Drums are rubbing on the backing plate in two spots. I left out the washer that goes under the small O ring, and I left out the oil slinger washer. Have I removed enough slack to allow the drum to go in too far? I guess options are stick a washer in there to act as a shim and push the drum back out a little, or Dremel out that area where the interference is. I know people talk bad about aftermarket parts, is this what I am dealing with?

_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

The 2 missing washers add up to about 1.5mm removed, so the drum is about that much farther inboard. (I think the inner one is 0.5mm and the slinger one 1.0mm.) I've gotten away with that on the older drums and 30mm wide brakes, but all the parts in the system, except the brake shoes and wheel cylinders, were 1958-1964 original VW parts.
_________________

[bomberbob]

Added in 1.5mm in washers, still rubs. compared the old backing plate to the new aftermarket. The old stamping has 8.3 mm gap between that spot where the interference is, the new backing plate has 7.4 from the outer edge to the spot where the metal is ground away. So it looks like the aftermarket part is a close representation to the OEM stamping, but not good enough. So like other aftermarket parts I have purchased, it goes under the dremel knife.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

Fixed. Removed all brake components, fitted the drum, turned it to get it to mark where it was rubbing, then dremeled a little at a time until it did not rub any more. Then put all the brake parts back in.
Having problems getting the emergency brake cables adjusted, I will take care of that tomorrow.
Not one single drop of trans oil dripped through all of this, drums going on and off 7 times, etc. At this point I am not sure of what actually fixed it. Putting O ring on before paper gasket? Sealed bearings? New brake backing plates? This is the problem with throwing the kitchen sink at a problem, if you fix it, you have no idea which action actually did it.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[bomberbob]

Not fixed. Passenger side is dripping from the brake drum. Drivers side doesn't appear to be leaking yet. I have to take it apart anyway to probably replace the brake shoes that have been leaked on, so while I am in there I will jack with thing some more.
Observations before I pull the drum
- No leak from the hole in the back of the backing plate. Nothing wet on the back of these new backing plates. This tells me that its not the little O ring, or the seal that rides on the spacer. If it was either of those it would run down into the bearing cover and out the little weep hole. Am I right?
So I am looking at either the large O ring leaking, or the paper gasket. I did put the O ring on before the paper, and followed all the other directions to the letter. Its not a huge bleed, maybe I just drive it and depend on the new discs I put on the front to stop me.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[EVfun]

I am coming up a loss at this point. Where have you verified leaks happening while the axle nut torqued to over 200 ft-lb? I suspect the leak is around the small o-ring, especially if you are leaking around the fully torqued axle nut.

I have had little problem getting VW swingaxle bearing caps and rear brakes sealed up, after I realized that they will always leak before the axle nut is torqued. I learned that back in the late 1980's (damn, I'm getting old - LOL). I typically run 1967 or older axles and tubes with 1958-1964 bearing caps and completely ditch the oil slinger. (The old drum mounted slinger wasn't even available in the late '90's.) My years owning old Bugs isn't proving very helpful here.

One thing I have seen is that if the axle can move in and out after the cap is bolted in place then you will have leaks from the large o-ring -- and you have some mismatch of parts. I also am learning is that even used real VW are much better than most shiny new replacement parts!
_________________

[bomberbob]

Thanks for the response. I just got in and washed my hands. I cannot find the source of the leak, even though there were drips. The area around and under where the axle tube and backing plate meet - dry. Ran my finger over it, nothing. That area under where the weep hole is, dry. Looked up to see if maybe it was brake fluid, dry. That's around behind, with nothing found I moved around to look at the outer area. Axle, dry. No sign of anything leaking around the paper gasket. I saw just a slight wet spot under the gasket, but not a run. It looked like just a little oil was there when I torqued the bearing cover down. I looked at the bottom of the brake cylinder, dry. ran my fingers under the block that holds the brake adjusting stars, dry. I could not find any place where there was any evidence whatsoever. Yet there were drips on the inner wheel, and a drip ready to drop off the drum.
I put the drum back on, and torqued it back down, and shoved another pin in it. Torqued to 225, but the hole did not line up so had to go over that to pin the hole.
Thanks for all who have provided advice and ideas, but at this point I can't fix a leak I can't find. Before I bought those shiny new bearing covers I did buy some off samba classified, they were so corroded they were trash. No evidence of a leak there. That's one good thing about these snazzy new backing plates that I had to grind to work: with that nice powder coat if there was a leak trail it would be easy to see. I miss my 72 bug, it was IRS. I had an older type 3 with swing axles, I have never had this much trouble before.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa